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Is political correctness going too far?

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I don't believe that hurt feelings are a sufficient reason to drag people through the Courts and waste public money and the Court's time.

I would be quite happy if "insult or offend" were replaced by "harrassed". It just shows how much clout the Perpetual Victims Society has on some of our politicians.
 


What do you expect from a country relatively recently swamped by people with self ascribed victim written all over them?
 
Tisme said:
What do you expect from a country relatively recently swamped by people with self ascribed victim written all over them?
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I would hope that our politicians would hold our established rights sacred and not pander to the few.
 


hmmm... Western civilisation does have its merits. But to call it "the finest Civilisation of all time" kinda skip a whole lot of bad.
 
luutzu said:
hmmm... Western civilisation does have its merits. But to call it "the finest Civilisation of all time" kinda skip a whole lot of bad.
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There is probably not much point discussing the merits of various civilisations as they all have their good and bad points, but democracy (imperfect as it is) arose in the "West" and that is the best form of civilisation I can think of unless you have any other suggestions ?
 
Democracy came from the Greeks. Long before Judaeo-Christian value stuff.

That and beside the brief few generations in ancient Greece, about 200 years before the fall of the Roman Republic to the Caesars, democracy as we can brag about didn't really happen to any Western "democracies" until about WWI.

Before that, it's rule by (Christian) Kings, Popes, Emperors then Lords and Barons. i.e. democracy only ever applied to White Males of noble birth and the landed merchants.

A more democratic period would be from 1945 to about the late 70s.

That's when the great unwashed get to vote and have policies that benefit them quite a bit. All that's gone.

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As to the idea of Democracy - rule for the benefit of the people, the masses - it's not unique to the Greeks or Western civilisation. I've read treatises on what you can call "democratic" values in works by Confucius and Hsun Tzu. You know, those who give to the people gain the people; those who gain the people gain the world. Then from Hsun Tzu, there's quite some detailed discussion on how the Emperor can rule more effectively through giving people more rights, more freedom...

There's that Imperial Exams that open all political offices to learned men. i.e. Study hard, past the exams and anyone become magistrates and Senators from the local village all the way up to the Forbidden City.

That's quite democratic and meritocratic too.

I mean, if we define Democracy as turning up to the ballot now and then to pick whoever is put in front of us, Communist China and Vietnam, Islamic Republic of Iran are also Democracies. So too is Turkey and a bunch of other "rogue" states.

Remember too that the US Founding Fathers have explicitly stated that democracy is bs. The country is to be ruled by wise and enlightened men. Who are those men? The rich ones of course. How can people be rich if they're not wise? Right?

James Madison, the chief architect of the US Constitution, argued this point. Though to his credit he saw how wrong he was towards the end of his life when those "wise men" prove to be corrupt and self-serving instead of being patriotic and caring for the national interests - i.e. interests and welfare of the masses (not corporations).

So while Western Democracies have come a long way and there are a whole lot of rights the masses have won. It's being taken away (for our safety against terrorism, of course) and I'm afraid what we're going to be left with is just turning up and check a box or two then get back to work and blame Muslims and immigrants for everything bad.
 
Luutzu, that was from the article that was said in parliament.

I have said this before, that every single person that arrived in this country has gone through hardship, be it black, white, man, woman or child.

Apart from languages being different, a majority just got on with it and slotted in the country -- our laws, our culture.

That is my view.
 

Australia is a great country with generally good people. There's a few Pauline Hansons and Tony Abbotts here and there, but it is a big country and all countries have them.

Point trying to make is that Australia as it is today - with social safety net for the poor and seniors; racial equality, or at least anti-racial discrimination; law and order; good infrastructure and a high standard of living and racial harmony among generally generous people etc. - these things weren't always there, and didn't come about because of some "Christian" value and Western civilisation being the greatest in the world, or something.

They came about because Australians are overwhelmingly liberal and progressive, they fought for these rights. It weren't handed down from politicians or the Church.

Were those Australians who fought for these civil rights mainly "White" and mostly "Christian". Of course they were. So while Western/Christian value might play some part in their upbringing, it's more about them having a conscience and being good rather than just a Westerner.

I mean, Christianity has been around for over 2000 years right? Christian kingdoms and empires had fought each other pretty much all through those entire couple millennia until just some 70 odd years ago. They stopped because they probably figured out that if they keep at it, they'll wipe each other out. So let's stick together and fight defenceless brown Muslims or something

Idea is, if we think that a country like Australia is great because it just is, because it's a Western Democracy with Christian value and heritage, hence it is awesome regardless of what it does. Well... history is full of examples of such self-glorifying civilisation who was great, then disappear or became a basket case.

Just look at China during most of the 20th century.
 
Well for being progressive, they don't believe in freedom of speech.

Therefore I call them Communists.
 
Tink said:
Well for being progressive, they don't believe in freedom of speech.

Therefore I call them Communists.
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Freedom doesn't have to mean the right to insult, offend and humiliate people, right?

That's like arguing that school bullies should have the freedom to beat up nerds. That to give them a detention or suspension is curbing their freedom.

Anyway, while we're arguing over our rights to put people of another race down, big (and small, of course) businesses are getting 16% [5% down from 30%] tax reduction and there's hardly a proper debate on whether we can afford that, or whether that is ultimately good for the country, its poor and workers.
 
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Man is not free unless government is limited.
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You are entitled to your opinion, Luutzu.
 
Tink said:
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Man is not free unless government is limited.
----------------------------

You are entitled to your opinion, Luutzu.
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I bet Queenslanders being flooded don't find those words and deeds from the gov't too terrifying.

While it's true that gov't should not dictate everything we do, we shouldn't mistake that to mean they should never do anything for us.

That kind of "gov't is the problem" nonsense, mix with phrases like freedom and liberty... it's all designed so that the masses would hate and abandon the only democratic institution that can help them. And that's not my opinion, it's insights from the likes of Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky - both of whom observed that by merely reading what state planners and business titans have been saying.

I mean, Big Brother is more than just keeping eyes on us and taking our lunch money. He's our only hope against the might and corruption of Big Everything. To waive that kind of power in a democracy where, technically speaking, we plebs do hold great sway over Him seems a great waste.

The problem in all societies is never really about race or religion. It has always been about class, wealth and its inequality.

That's why you have civil wars in just about all countries since the beginning of recorded history. One group of pure blood takes all the money and all the power unto themselves, all at the expense and starvation of those from the same blood and skin tone, just somehow inferior in some other ways - like not being imbreded into wealth and privileged.

So yea, keep fighting for that right to insult people, and that right to not have homosexuals ruining that perfect marriage between a man and a woman... all the while watch as $50B a year [? Must be a heck of a lot more than that right?] get taken away from everyone who do not own a business, then sit back and wonder when it's gonna come trickling down on us.
 

It is not a matter whether we can afford it or not, it is a matter of competition with other countries like the USA going down to 15% and the UK and Singapore below 20%......You won't encourage investment into Australia with higher tax rates.....Even Chris Bowen, Bill Shorten and Andrew Leigh all agree...Investment means more progress, more projects and less unemployment...More jobs.
 
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