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Immunisation, right or wrong?

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sptrawler said:
I suppose this article answers your earlier questions and makes reference to Andrew Wakefields claims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine

It appears to be a balanced report and well referenced.
Click to expand...

It appears that our respective definitions of "balance" are at variance.

Are you telling me that Wakefield's claims regarding the sordid history of "Pluserix" and "Immravax" are without foundation?
 
cynic said:
It appears that our respective definitions of "balance" are at variance.

Are you telling me that Wakefield's claims regarding the sordid history of "Pluserix" and "Immravax" are without foundation?
Click to expand...

No, the referenced article in wikipedia is.
If you want to base your assumptions on one persons claims, that is your perogative.
If you base all your personal medical prognosis on one practioner or specalists diagnosis, that is your right.
I personaly, visit many before making a decission, maybe I'm paranoid.
If Wakefields claims are correct and can be substantiated, there are numerous law firms that would enact a class action.
 
sptrawler said:
No, the referenced article in wikipedia is.
If you want to base your assumptions on one persons claims, that is your perogative.
Click to expand...

Well I certainly don't base my assumptions on the sole contents of wikipedia!
Particularly given that it includes such gems as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence

"massless photons" indeed!
(Next thing you know they'll be trying to tell us that the speed of light cannot be exceeded!)
Need I say more about the integrity of wikipedia!!
sptrawler said:
If you base all your personal medical prognosis on one practioner or specalists diagnosis, that is your right.
I personaly, visit many before making a decission, maybe I'm paranoid.
Click to expand...
Wakefield was by no means the first, nor the only, medical professional to make such claims!
(Again, I note, that you are failing to address my question regarding the history of "Pluserix" and "Immravax".)
sptrawler said:
If Wakefields claims are correct and can be substantiated, there are numerous law firms that would enact a class action.
Click to expand...
Had you taken the time to look beyond the confines of wikipedia, I believe that you would have found references to a number of past and present litigatory proceedings by aggrieved parents.

By the way, MMR isn't the only vaccine to be blamed for serious ill effects in children.

For example:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/virus-traces-in-fluvax-cause-of-childrens-convulsions-20120620-20olw.html

P.S. Please bear in mind that I am not opposed to the appropriate use of vaccinations in circumstances that warrant such use. However, I am incensed at this widespread public disinformation campaign regarding the efficacy, safety and propriety of such pharmacological procedures. I am of the belief that people are being denied the right to make informed choices concerning the health care of themselves and their children!
 

Can you define the appropriate use of vaccinations in circumstances that warrant such use?

Considering that in Australia, and pretty much all other rich countries, the number of deaths due ALL vaccinatable diseases are pretty much statistical blips compared to 50 years ago, it seems mass immunisation programs have probably done as much to reduce human suffering as agriculture and sanitation had done previously.

As a global society we were faced with smallpox deaths in the hundreds of thousands every year. Over the last 30 years there's not be a single death to this vile disease. A conservative estimate is the small pox vaccine has saved AT LEAST 12 million deaths, let alone the millions saved from being blinded.

Any harm caused by the mass immunisation program to eradicate small pox surely out weighs any harm it caused, especially when you consider some of those harmed by the vaccine would have likely been harmed by the virus itself.
 
sydboy007 said:
Can you define the appropriate use of vaccinations in circumstances that warrant such use?
...
Click to expand...

I believe that I've already made my stance on informed use of pharmacology perfectly clear on more than one occasion throughout this thread!

This and numerous of our other interactions on this forum have left me with the opinion that you are desperately seeking a means to debunk me!

Were your earlier oversights and mistakes truly so difficult to accept that your ego will no longer allow you rest until you find some way to invalidate me?
 

You made a statement. All I did was ask you to clarify your view point. That's how discussions occur.

It's generally not possible to debunk a non factual / scientifically based belief as there's no evidence to support or disprove the belief.

The facts show that since immunisation deaths due to diseases that killed millions of people every year has pretty much dropped to close to zero. To me that is irrefutable evidence that vaccination works. The fact that millions of people aren't dying from the vaccines is to me irrefutable proof that vaccination is a very good risk reward trade off.

I'd like any parent thinking about not immunising their children to be presented with information like how many non vaccinated children end up at the doctors, hospital, how many die, how many have long term issues from the disease they contract. Then compare these stats with vaccinated children. Shouldn't be too hard for the medical community in Australia to summarise that kind of information.

What is the kind of information you want to allow informed consent?
 
Must I repeat myself?!

 
cynic said:
Must I repeat myself?!
Click to expand...

If we're being specific about the fluvax then yeah, I'd generally say no point unless you're in one of the high risk groups.

The flu is different in that you don't get life long immunity from the vaccination.
 
http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...h-no-added-benefits/?&WT.mc_id=SA_SP_20140602

The new study, published in the May 19 Pediatrics, found that administering the MMR shot or the less frequently used MMRV one (which includes the varicella, or chickenpox, vaccine) later, between 16 and 23 months, doubles the child’s risk of developing a fever-caused, or febrile, seizure as a reaction to the vaccine. The risk of a febrile seizure following the MMR is approximately one case in 3,000 doses for children aged 12 to 15 months but one case in 1,500 doses for children aged 16 to 23 months “This study adds to the evidence that the best way to prevent disease and minimize side effects from vaccines is to vaccinate on the recommended schedule,” says Simon Hambidge, lead author of the study and the director of general pediatrics at Denver Health

No evidence to date reveals any benefits to delaying vaccines. A study in 2010 showed that children who received delayed vaccinations performed no better at ages seven to 10 on behavioral and cognitive assessments than children who received their vaccines on time. “There was not a single outcome for which the delayed group did better,” observes Michael Smith, the pediatric infectious disease specialist at the University of Louisville who led that study. He notes that delaying vaccines leaves children at risk for disease longer, and that many parents have little firsthand experience with those diseases. “In this context, any potential side effect””real or perceived””may be enough to convince a parent that it’s safe to defer vaccines,” he says. “However, that is not a safe choice, especially as vaccine-preventable diseases like measles are making a comeback.”

A measles outbreak currently underway in Ohio, for example, is now the largest state outbreak since 1996, keeping the U.S. on track for the worst measles year in nearly two decades. Universities in Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois and Virginia have had recent mumps outbreaks, and pertussis, or whooping cough, has been increasing for several years.
 
Measles Measles every where.
The broader public health I'm allowed to hold in my own hands and there's in yours; Gives cause for serious thought.

A little know children's authors thoughts on the subject;

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/tod...vaccination-call-to-arms-20150203-134my1.html



Are there opponents to vaccination still out there in 'Farkking Disneyland'.............a good dose of Adolescent Mumps to those that are.
 
This idiot is trying to come here...

 
This is a funny demonstration, I pretty much agree with Penn on this one.

 
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sydboy007 said:
If we're being specific about the fluvax then yeah, I'd generally say no point unless you're in one of the high risk groups.

The flu is different in that you don't get life long immunity from the vaccination.
Click to expand...

The herd vaccination principle still applies.

Just because your not at high risk, doesn't mean society won't benefit from you being vaccinated. Because you can pass the germ onto people who are high risk, imagine if it were you that spread the flu to your dear old grandma at the family BBQ, or the nice older lady that's a regular customer at your store.

Some vaccines such as whopping cough are recommended solely for their herd protection, you will never die of whopping cough, but your new bouncing baby niece or nephew might, so if they are to young to be vaccinated and you plan on visiting, getting a jab can pay off big time.
 
Value Collector said:
This is a funny demonstration, I pretty much agree with Penn on this one.

Click to expand...

Yes , I agree too, however the fact is that the USA has established the Vaccine Injury Compensation program which has compensated about 2500 individuals with payments of over $2 billion (including lawyers fees).

So there is a risk with vaccinations, it's just a very small one compared to the benefits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_injury
 
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Value Collector said:
This is a funny demonstration, I pretty much agree with Penn on this one.
Click to expand...

Although I agree with most of what Penn (and Teller) say, I just can't stand his foul mouth. This clip is something I would like to post on a forum about anti-vaxers, but it would simply turn off some of the participants.

Meanwhile, another letter from the heart.....

To the Parent of the Unvaccinated Child Who Exposed My Family to Measles

http://www.motherjones.com/environm...er-parent-unvaccinated-child-measles-exposure
 

Probably like seat belts, can it be shown that in a few extremely rare cases that seats belts have caused harm,.. Probably yes.

Should we avoid seats belts,.. Offcourse not.
 

Yeah, it takes all types to get the point accross, in some cases you need a diplomat, other cases you need a fire brand, Penn plays the part of the fire brand.
 
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