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Hydrogen

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sptrawler said:
There has been talk of introducing a small quantity of hydrogen into the LNG reticulated system.
Click to expand...
A few % no problem. Various trials being done including one in SA.

The idea that we'd reticulate pure hydrogen at the residential level using the existing gas pipes however has a lot of problems with it and I'll be very surprised if it happens. Everything from metal embrittlement through to the very wide flammability range of it makes the idea of people using it in their kitchens at least somewhat concerning. It needs far stricter standards than does natural gas, in a situation where costs tend to be cut and maintenance is hit and miss at best.

It's not impossible we end up with every house having hydrogen piped into it but it's far more complex than just changing what's put into the existing gas pipes and adjusting burners. It's not like the change from town gas to natural gas for example which was relatively straightforward.

Different for industry etc obviously.
 
SyBoo said:
BBQ https://merlin.unsw.edu.au/energyh/h2q/
Click to expand...

That was an enlightening reference SyBoo. Whatever our preconceived ideas of what is technically possible are, I suspect rapid new discoveries can change the picture.

And naturally issues of commercial practicality, cost effectiveness and sheer willingness to develop a product come into play.

From direct experience I'm very aware of how promising new technologies are often bought out by current competing interests who then kill them because they threaten to destroy the viability of their own product.

In 2021 the fight to the death is between a costly, polluting, very finite fossil fuel industry and a clean, infinite, cheaper renewable energy future.
 
NSW Hydrogen strategy.

NSW Hydrogen Strategy welcomed by industry​




By Lauren Davis
Friday, 15 October, 2021





NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet has announced the launch of the NSW Hydrogen Strategy, claiming it will help the state attract more than $80 billion of investment, drive deep decarbonisation and establish itself as an energy and economic superpower.
“NSW will lead the country with this hydrogen strategy,” the Premier said.

“Our major trading partners see hydrogen as part of their energy future; this state has the skills, infrastructure and renewable energy resources to compete globally in this new industry.”

Treasurer and Energy Minister Matt Kean said the strategy, which will provide up to $3 billion in incentives, will set the state up as a global hydrogen leader and is forecast to increase the size of the NSW economy by more than $600 million by 2030.

“Hydrogen will not only help the state halve our emissions by 2030 and get to net zero by 2050, it will create new opportunities for our heavy industry, and an economic bonanza of investment and jobs,” Kean said.

“This strategy is forecast to more than halve the cost of green hydrogen production in NSW and will make NSW the best place to invest in hydrogen in the world.”

In addition to delivering an already committed $70 million to develop the state’s hydrogen hubs in the Illawarra and the Hunter, the strategy includes

NSW Hydrogen Strategy welcomed by industry

Premier Dominic Perrottet says the NSW Hydrogen Strategy will help the state drive deep decarbonisation and establish itself as an energy and economic superpower.
www.sustainabilitymatters.net.au
 
Did you ask the working man for an opinion, or shall we simply follow the Iron Ore messiah, that West Australian visionary, a great Australian with a destiny.

From the above link....

AWU National Secretary Daniel Walton: " if we’re investing in hydrogen infrastructure, why not build the electrolysers here?"
Why would we do that? Costs are too high in this country. More fundamentally, for green hydrogen to ever get to parity with competing fuels we need scale up manufacture to move to SE Asia for GWatt scale, similar to what occurred with PV.

"We also need a hydrogen reservation policy so a portion of the hydrogen we produce in this country is set aside to sell to Australian factories providing Australian jobs"
At what price? consequently, how much subsidy is required to keep an AU industry going? Current cost of Australian green hydrogen - $5/kg
Parity needed with competing fuels - $2/kg (using renewable powered electrolysers).
Massive subsidies required
Scale in electrolyser manufacture
Further reductions in the price of renewable power
 
No reason why scale and technological leadership can't be achieved in Australia.

We've already done it three times in the energy industry after all. At the national level, we've got a pretty decent list of achievements when it comes to hydro, brown coal and LPG with all of them having been replicated internationally and we're doing it again with solar PV in the grid right now, we're once again leading the world technically.

No reason we can't apply that with hydrogen.
 
Be careful what you say, giving Australia credit, isn't appreciated by some on here.
 
Geoscience Australia on hydrogen production in Australia.

Hydrogen

Hydrogen has the potential to be a significant source of export revenue for Australia, to assist with decarbonising Australia’s economy, and could establish Australia as a leader in low emission fuel production.
www.ga.gov.au
 
@sptrawler's link explains that meso-scale maps show that Australia's greatest wind potential lies in the coastal regions of western, south-western, southern and south-eastern Australia. Coastal regions with high wind resources (wind speeds above 7.5m/s) include the west coast south of Shark Bay to Cape Leeuwin, along the Great Australian Bight and the Eyre Peninsula in South Australia, to western Victoria and the west coast of Tasmania.
Developing wind farms on land is relatively cheap and easy.
However, offshore wind is significantly more reliable and has comparatively massive output advantages, as shown below:
 

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Investigations commence into powering trucks with hydrogen fuel cells.

Green hydrogen trucks to help cut transport emissions

Green hydrogen power could be used to fuel the world’s heaviest fuel cell electric trucks in a $12.5 million investment to drive down emissions in the transport sector.
www.theage.com.au
From the srticle:
Hydrogen power could be a clean replacement for the carbon-intensive diesel fuel powering transport fleets, and Australia is looking to cash in on the world’s green technology push with a $12.5 million investment to develop zero emission trucks.

The Clean Energy Finance Corporation (CEFC), a federal government-run “green bank”, announced on Monday it will finance five purpose-built, zero-emissions trucks, the construction of hydrogen production and refuelling infrastructure.

The transport sector is Australia’s third-largest source of greenhouse gases, producing 17.5 per cent of emissions.

The announcement comes as Australia is emerging as a front-runner among nations vying to become hydrogen-exporting powerhouses amid fresh projections showing demand for the fuel could increase six-fold by 2050

CEFC’s hydrogen fuel cell electric trucks will complete a 30-kilometre trip as they move zinc ore from Townsville Port in Queensland to a metal refinery, where they will refuel with green hydrogen produced on-site. The initial five zero emissions trucks are expected to abate about 1300 tonnes of carbon dioxide per year.
 
....and do we have a youbeut ETF for hydrogen yet? Sure do! Just listed recently...HGEN

The top 10 constituents are listed on the chart.

 
Ann said:
....and do we have a youbeut ETF for hydrogen yet? Sure do! Just listed recently...HGEN

The top 10 constituents are listed on the chart.
Click to expand...

I've bought some of this to see how it goes. I hope it's more than just a fad after COP and the tech actually works on scale. Hope, the operative word. ?
 
Sean K said:
I've bought some of this to see how it goes. I hope it's more than just a fad after COP and the tech actually works on scale. Hope, the operative word.
Click to expand...
Twiggy Forrest FMG and Woodside are just two names taking this technology seriously. Not saying it won't be full of hype of course!
 
I've just had a look at all the little H2 piglets on my watchlist.

All save for HGEN, WES and ORG seem to have taken to the shallow end with variable losses, some as high as 9 to 12%..

And looking at New Yawk I reckon HGEN may take a further shave or even lose one ear providing a chance for me to enter down the track.

WES and FMG are easy to hold atm. but the latter has the ole Twigs who marches to his own drum.

gg
 
I just took a quick look at this thread and it does not appear anyone has put a list of stocks with a greater or lesser degree of interest in Hydrogen as yet.
As has already been mentioned there is HGEN ETF plus...
From largest to smallest market cap.

WES -Wesfarmers Limited $67.13b
FMG -Fortescue Metals Group Ltd $47.63b
ORG -Origin Energy Limited $8.81b
IPL - Incitec Pivot Limited $6.27b
AGL -AGL Energy Limited. $3.38b
HZR -Hazer Group Limited $236.95m
PRL -Province Resources Ltd $192.04m
PH2 -Pure Hydrogen Corporation Limited $167.92m
TNG -TNG Limited $105.52m
SPN -Sparc Technologies Limited $97.68m
ECT -Environmental Clean Technologies Limited. $68.48m
GEV -Global Energy Ventures Limited $67.15m
EDE -Eden Innovations Ltd $55.43m $1,922.2k
HXG -Hexagon Energy Materials Limited $40.59m
PGY -Pilot Energy Limited $35.61m
SRJ -SRJ Technologies Group PLC $31.93m
ADX -ADX Energy Ltd $31.9m
QEM -QEM Limited $24.95m
LIO -Lion Energy Limited $22.94m
MR1 -Montem Resources Limited. $15.32m
 
Looking at GEV today gave me pause to wonder how hard it would be to convert shipping from petro to hydro @Smurf1976 or anyone?
 
I believe the Hydrogen stocks have had a good run and will retrace.

This year seems to have been a cycle of fads... oilers, iron ore, tech, biotech, lithium, kaolin, golders, crypto and now Hydrogen. Up n down. Up n down and Up again in some cases.

I might throw a dart just at Golders for the December Competition. It is time for a run up in my favourite metal again.

The cousins in China and India will be tossing it about over the NY and Religious holidays and on the Feast of St. Jinping, who of the latter Shakespeare wrote many a fine scene.

Not that Hydrogen will not be a long term goer. Just not for the small outfits or the ETF. I believe FMG, WES and Overseas outfits will dominate eventually.

gg
 
Ann said:
Looking at GEV today gave me pause to wonder how hard it would be to convert shipping from petro to hydro @Smurf1976 or anyone?
Click to expand...
FMG is taking a lead on this issue. They are developing the technology to use green ammonia as the fuel for the iron ore tankers they use for transporting their ore to China. They are converting one of the carriers at the moment and it will be operational in 2022. Check out the story.

Fortescue Future Industries calls for net zero target for shipping by 2040 and announced a green ship at sea in 2022 | Fortescue Metals Group Ltd

www.fmgl.com.au
 
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