Has Clive Palmer gone loco?

noco · 17 February 2016

From the report on the investigations into Queensland Nickel, it is little wonder Uncle Clive would like to see the refinery go down the gurgler....

The maintenance required on the plant is enormous and he has no intentions of implementing any plan......The plant is now 45 years old and has well and truly passed it's use by date.

I fear some worker/workers may be in danger of fatal injuries..

My friend, who was one of the maintenance men retrenched, told me the plant is in one chaotic mess.....He often suffered from excessive ammonia intake due to faulty equipment.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...l/news-story/b4d776d2cdda3e0dcd2e9416eb703232

Administrators at Clive Palmer’s Queensland Nickel are trawling through a daunting list of overdue maintenance requests engineers say could expose the company to costs of more than $30 million and ultimately decide the future of the troubled Yabulu refinery.

An explosion in one of the *refinery’s 12 nickel roasters early yesterday has fuelled speculation that mass sackings had translated into a drop in safety standards.

While it soon became clear the minor explosion was the result of gas build up in a roaster that had been out of use for a number of weeks due to declining nickel *production, leaked documents *revealed the refinery remained exposed to potentially greater safety risks.

noco · 2 March 2016

The state of the future of Queensland Nickel is looking really grim and it is inevitable the refinery will fold in the next couple of months unless there is a cash injection.

It has been banded around that the refinery needs some $30,000,000 to $300,000.000 to bring it up to scratch.....If it was accessed as the lower amount I have heard the remaining employees could take over the works which would amount to just $5,500 each.....Just how the legal side would work if the refinery was put into moth balls I am not sure......If Palmer defaults with creditors, the creditors will carry the can and the already retrenched workers would receive nothing from Palmer but may still be entitled to some remuneration from the government.

I am not sure where it will all end up.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/30990849/nickel-refinery-needs-cash-now-fti/

noco · 11 April 2016

I watched an open meeting of sacked workers on Austar chaired by Alan Jones at 1 pm to today..

It was attended also by 4 Liberal Federal MPs, Jenny Hill (Mayor of Townsville), Bob Katter (sr) and Shane Kunuth (Katter Party) from the Queensland Parliament.

We have 3 state Labor MPs here in Townsville and not one of them attended that meeting let alone any union reps.

So much for the interest shown by the unions and the Labor Party in the sacked 800 workers.

Five resolutions were agreed upon, one being that the poor old Federal Government pay those workers their entitlements......Palmer is getting off Scott free......

Also the clean up of the polluted tailing dams may fall back to responsibility of the Queensland state government.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/31316161/palmer-had-last-say-on-qn-spending-calls/

basilio · 11 April 2016

Nice work Noco. Certainly has been a litany of neglect by Clive Palmer with the Refinery.

I wonder if anyone is liable for Health and Safety violations in the time of operations? Who is responsible for chasing this ? Is it possible other mining companies are risking similar sanctions operating dangerous equipment ? Worth a question I think.

___________________________________

Also unimpressed with the risk of the Government ending up with restoration costs. Would it be useful to attempt to make directors personally liable for such costs even when the company goes bankrupt ? Or is that too anti- business ?

noco · 11 April 2016

basilio said:
Nice work Noco. Certainly has been a litany of neglect by Clive Palmer with the Refinery.

I wonder if anyone is liable for Health and Safety violations in the time of operations? Who is responsible for chasing this ? Is it possible other mining companies are risking similar sanctions operating dangerous equipment ? Worth a question I think.

___________________________________

Also unimpressed with the risk of the Government ending up with restoration costs. Would it be useful to attempt to make directors personally liable for such costs even when the company goes bankrupt ? Or is that too anti- business ?

Clive Palmer has a lot of questions to answer......The environmental hazard he has created and neglected and the health and safety of workers due to lack of maintenance.

Palmer has his own legal team working for him full time and they know all the loop holes to protect Palmer's personal wealth.......He keeps saying he is not personally responsible for the mess he has created including the $73 million owing to sacked workers......

I have dinner with one of the sacked maintenance guys almost every Sunday evening at one of the local pubs and he often had told me of the state of the plant going back 2 years and they were only allowed to do essential repairs.....No major replacements ever took place so I would say Palmer has been planning the demise of the refinery for some time. He was often dosed with leaking ammonia......My friend is owed $125,000.

The Palazuzeck Queensland Labor state government was suing Palmer for the environmental neglect and the case was due to be heard any time soon.....The Queensland State Government is responsible for the Health and Safety of the refinery and if Palmer becomes untouchable the hazard will rest on the shoulders of the state government to clean up the mess......My mate tells me the tailing dams are rich in iron ore, gold and other minerals so the government or some other contractual arrangement could possibly make some dollars from it.

I believe the company will officially go into liquidation on the 22nd April.

The affect on the Townsville economy is extensive to say the least...Maybe the Labor run local council could create some jobs but I doubt it.

I have very grave doubts about the reopening of the plant in July.

sptrawler · 11 April 2016

Isn't it ironic, that Palmer was voted in by the people outraged at politicians, who don't care about the"little guy".

Abbott was thrown out because he is a "normal bloke", who the reporters didn't like.

Turnbull is in, because the reporters thought, he was the "messiah".

Now the reporters want Shorten, because they have run out of preferred candidates, what a hoot.

What a way to run a Country, jeez we deserve everything we get, what a bunch of losers.

Australia a land obsessed with social media, with an expectation of social welfare and lack of personal endeavour.IMO We reward mediocracy, we actually encourage it.

Some may see me as being too critical, however I have been fortunate in seeing like for like, in the same workplace.

What took 2 days to do 30 years ago, now takes 5 days, but everyone is happy cruising.lol

If you suggested to the workers, that apprentices used to do the same job in 2 days, you would have a strike on your hands.
Hey that's progress, it cracks me up.

I bet you a pound to a pinch of $hit, that Chinese workers are filling the houses in North West W.A within 20 years, while our unemployed are sitting on welfare in the capital cities.

What a laugh that will be, maybe then the penny will drop, but I doubt it.lol

Tisme · 11 April 2016

Im guessing the unionised workforce and its EBA is of no consequence to the company going down ...... mainly because it's Clive Palmer at the helm as opposed to the pure as the driven snow LIberal supporting execs at Arrium (I wonder how much of shareholder dividends that company donated to the LNP?)

Of course unions are not the people in them, but the evil reps.

Tisme · 11 April 2016

noco said:
I watched an open meeting of sacked workers on Austar chaired by Alan Jones at 1 pm to today..

It was attended also by 4 Liberal Federal MPs, Jenny Hill (Mayor of Townsville), Bob Katter (sr) and Shane Kunuth (Katter Party) from the Queensland Parliament.

I can't comment on the veracity of your commentary, but why would the ALP attend a meeting called by a man who is vehemently caustic to them at all times? Alan Jones is not the government whip. Similarly I wouldn't expect the LNP to attend a meeting called and controlled by the chapter boss of the CFMEU.

sptrawler · 11 April 2016

Tisme said:
Im guessing the unionised workforce and its EBA is of no consequence to the company going down ...... mainly because it's Clive Palmer at the helm as opposed to the pure as the driven snow LIberal supporting execs at Arrium (I wonder how much of shareholder dividends that company donated to the LNP?)

Of course unions are not the people in them, but the evil reps.

The unionised workforce, isn't receptive to one step back, for two steps forward.
It is onward, ever onward, regardless of the consequences.

We will see how that pans out.

It doesn't matter whether it is LNP, Labor or Clive Palmer, if it is running at a loss it will fail.

Funny how you highlight how much the company donates to the LNP, how much does the union donate to the Labor Party?

Just nonsense in the scheme of things, the issues are much bigger than petty crap like that.

Australia's living standard will fall, unless the underlying problems are addressed, that includes those on public servant pensions.

There is no upside to being on a public servant pension of 60% of FAS, if the currency drops by 40%.lol

The problem is atm,IMO the companies will shut down the refineries etc.
Then when the when the A$ drops heaps, reopen and re employ at much lower wages. Just my opinion.

sptrawler · 11 April 2016

Tisme said:
Of course unions are not the people in them, but the evil reps.

One thing has to be remembered, there isn't unions, if there isn't jobs.

Our unions thrive on a highly skilled, workforce that is dynamic and has something to offer, over third world countries.
I don't think that is being nurtured in our present system, be it our education system, our work ethic, our political leadership.
Actually I feel there is nothing we are excelling at, other than finding excuses for our appalling mediocrity and finding more money to support it.

noco · 12 April 2016

Tisme said:
I can't comment on the veracity of your commentary, but why would the ALP attend a meeting called by a man who is vehemently caustic to them at all times? Alan Jones is not the government whip. Similarly I wouldn't expect the LNP to attend a meeting called and controlled by the chapter boss of the CFMEU.

Wake up to yourself Tisme.....It was a meeting of sacked workers seeking their entitlements FFS.......The Labor Party and the unions are supposed to be the workers friends and should have been their fighting for their cause.

They were no where to be seen which in my mind they could not care less what happens to those QN Refinery sacked workers....The Labor Party and the unions are all for them selves...The only Labor Party rep at that meeting yesterday was Jenny Hill, the mayor of Townsville......She has just been re-elected and it would certainly have looked worse for the LUG Party if she had been absent.

Need I remind you how Shorten and the AWU diddled the workers of Chiquita and Clean Event of their entitlements and penalty rates and yet they rave on about penalty rates for workers who seek extra work on weekends over and above their normal week day jobs......What happened to the old adage that the weekends were a time of rest and relaxation, where the family enjoyed their outing together and went to church on Sundays.......The problem today is that many people are too materialistic and greedy...They have to keep up with the Jone's next door.

noco · 12 April 2016

sptrawler said:
Isn't it ironic, that Palmer was voted in by the people outraged at politicians, who don't care about the"little guy".

Abbott was thrown out because he is a "normal bloke", who the reporters didn't like.

Turnbull is in, because the reporters thought, he was the "messiah".

Now the reporters want Shorten, because they have run out of preferred candidates, what a hoot.

What a way to run a Country, jeez we deserve everything we get, what a bunch of losers.

Australia a land obsessed with social media, with an expectation of social welfare and lack of personal endeavour.IMO We reward mediocracy, we actually encourage it.

Some may see me as being too critical, however I have been fortunate in seeing like for like, in the same workplace.

What took 2 days to do 30 years ago, now takes 5 days, but everyone is happy cruising.lol

If you suggested to the workers, that apprentices used to do the same job in 2 days, you would have a strike on your hands.
Hey that's progress, it cracks me up.

I bet you a pound to a pinch of $hit, that Chinese workers are filling the houses in North West W.A within 20 years, while our unemployed are sitting on welfare in the capital cities.

What a laugh that will be, maybe then the penny will drop, but I doubt it.lol

SP you are a man after my own heart.

The media control politics today and I will continue to place emphasis on the ABC which is controlled by the LUG Party.

Tisme · 12 April 2016

sptrawler said:
The unionised workforce, isn't receptive to one step back, for two steps forward.
It is onward, ever onward, regardless of the consequences.

We will see how that pans out.

It doesn't matter whether it is LNP, Labor or Clive Palmer, if it is running at a loss it will fail.

Funny how you highlight how much the company donates to the LNP, how much does the union donate to the Labor Party?

Just nonsense in the scheme of things, the issues are much bigger than petty crap like that.

Australia's living standard will fall, unless the underlying problems are addressed, that includes those on public servant pensions.

There is no upside to being on a public servant pension of 60% of FAS, if the currency drops by 40%.lol

The problem is atm,IMO the companies will shut down the refineries etc.
Then when the when the A$ drops heaps, reopen and re employ at much lower wages. Just my opinion.

Well party donations are not petty, they are an imperative for their survival. They do influence policy and they shouldn't.

With the LNP facing electoral defeat plus an internal party schism the need for a focus enemy is real and the workers will be the sacrificial lambs and the crocodile tears will flow from the Govt leading up to polling day .

The duplicity of blaming unionists employed by the top end of town boys club on one front (Arrium) and then feeling sorry for unionists employed by a company involving Clive Palmer (QLD Nickel) is baffling and to me just adds weight to the hypocrisy that it's being displayed to win an argument.

Tisme · 12 April 2016

sptrawler said:
One thing has to be remembered, there isn't unions, if there isn't jobs.

Our unions thrive on a highly skilled, workforce that is dynamic and has something to offer, over third world countries.
I don't think that is being nurtured in our present system, be it our education system, our work ethic, our political leadership.
Actually I feel there is nothing we are excelling at, other than finding excuses for our appalling mediocrity and finding more money to support it.

I think you might be right, with the caveat that without the unions of the past we would probably still be majority serfs to a minority rich, wealth distribution would be chasms, kids would be pressed into service, and for all intents and purposes we would be the third world resource. Unionised Europe, North America, us and those blokes on the other side of the ditch all share some common factors and one is unionism ... which is a whipping boy for failing business leaders, opportunistic politicians and Mrs Buckets .

The key to remember is that unions are individuals who vote for the actions of the collective. Many unionists vote LNP.....I think the CEPU actually funded and "enemy" polly in Victoria a few recent years back?

Trade unions have given way to white collar unions who are invariably in the employ of the public service..... that is where the obscenity of undeserved wage rates, benefits and piggies snouts in the trough occurs IMO and that is the true oncost to profit that is retarding our national expansion. 27% of the employable population probably taking home 25% on average more money than the people in the production sector? How bums on seats writing interoffice memos could ever be construed more valuable than someone making widgets for national income escapes me.

noco · 12 April 2016

Tisme said:
Well party donations are not petty, they are an imperative for their survival. They do influence policy and they shouldn't.

With the LNP facing electoral defeat plus an internal party schism the need for a focus enemy is real and the workers will be the sacrificial lambs and the crocodile tears will flow from the Govt leading up to polling day .

The duplicity of blaming unionists employed by the top end of town boys club on one front (Arrium) and then feeling sorry for unionists employed by a company involving Clive Palmer (QLD Nickel) is baffling and to me just adds weight to the hypocrisy that it's being displayed to win an argument.

Tisme, you are talking through your hat again...There is no comparison between Palmer and Arrium......If you could just open your eyes for once you will understand what a rogue this fellow Palmer is....Palmer owned QN Refinery outright without any share holders as opposed to Arrium. ......Palmer is avoiding paying his sacked workers their entitlements..Palmer is avoiding cleaning up an environmental disaster in Townsville.....Palmer siphoned off millions of dollars out of QN for political purposes. Palmer is avoiding paying capital gains tax.

Palmer was a life member and big donor to the Liberal Party and he told everyone the Liberal Party was the best thing and he praised Campbell Newman for wiping out the Labor Party in Queensland at the last election and then when The Liberal Government would not bend to his demands to allow his coal mine to go ahead he spat the dummy, resigned from the Liberals and set out on a revenge and destroy Campbell Newman.

Now you tell me that you cannot see or understand the difference.

noco · 12 April 2016

Tisme said:
I think you might be right, with the caveat that without the unions of the past we would probably still be majority serfs to a minority rich, wealth distribution would be chasms, kids would be pressed into service, and for all intents and purposes we would be the third world resource. Unionised Europe, North America, us and those blokes on the other side of the ditch all share some common factors and one is unionism ... which is a whipping boy for failing business leaders, opportunistic politicians and Mrs Buckets .

The key to remember is that unions are individuals who vote for the actions of the collective. Many unionists vote LNP.....I think the CEPU actually funded and "enemy" polly in Victoria a few recent years back?

Trade unions have given way to white collar unions who are invariably in the employ of the public service..... that is where the obscenity of undeserved wage rates, benefits and piggies snouts in the trough occurs IMO and that is the true oncost to profit that is retarding our national expansion. 27% of the employable population probably taking home 25% on average more money than the people in the production sector? How bums on seats writing interoffice memos could ever be construed more valuable than someone making widgets for national income escapes me.

I have not seen any evidence of the unions being the whipping boy for the failure of QN Refinery...Talking through your hat again.

If as you say the unions are so great why has their membership fallen to an all time low....The majority of workers are sick to death of unions and the ones that remain are the likes of nurses, police, firemen and the public service and as you know they have no choice.

Tisme · 12 April 2016

noco said:
Tisme, you are talking through your hat again...There is no comparison between Palmer and Arrium......

Wrong both leaderships have sunk a company. The difference is that Palmer hasn't lowered himself to blame his workers (yet)... the press on the otherhand have been quick to sink the boot into him because he's not part of Murdoch's the old boys club.

noco said:
Palmer was a life member and big donor to the Liberal Party

Wrong he was firstly a lifer with the Nationals which transferred to the LNP

noco said:
a nd he told everyone the Liberal Party was the best thing and he praised Campbell Newman for wiping out the Labor Party in Queensland at the last election and then when The Liberal Government would not bend to his demands to allow his coal mine to go ahead he spat the dummy, resigned from the Liberals and set out on a revenge and destroy Campbell Newman.

Wrong the defamation case he brought against Newman and the acrimonious split was as a result of Newman stating in public "a guy who tried to buy ... my government". It was in relation to a meeting between Clive and Jeff Seeney in 2012 when he tried, like so many others regularly do, to get gain concessions from the minister, in this case approval for Port Palmer and an exclusive rail corridor to the Galilee Basin. The LNP govt has since been accused to have favoured many who are directly linked to the LNP coffers.

Clive's no new comer to politics, he's been behind every eruption and party split since the 70's....just ask him

Tisme · 12 April 2016

noco said:
I have not seen any evidence of the unions being the whipping boy for the failure of QN Refinery...Talking through your hat again.

If as you say the unions are so great why has their membership fallen to an all time low....The majority of workers are sick to death of unions and the ones that remain are the likes of nurses, police, firemen and the public service and as you know they have no choice.

I'm not going to debate the merits of unions. What I am saying is that it is convenient for individuals and blame a collective as if it is some ubiquitous being, when in fact it is many individuals who aren't necessarily rusted on Labor supporters. There is plenty of evidence to show that unions were the reason the Dickensian era came to an end and the rights of the individual emerged.

The reason the declining % of membership = many reasons e.g. the stain of the **** thrown by opponents has stuck, the population no longer has the stomach to put in the good fight, individual greed over social good prevails, wannabe gentry don't see themselves as the working class they are, small one man business doesn't want the oncosts of EBAs, individualism, but I think the main reason is that they have skewered themselves by demanding and getting the social safety nets of the dole, health and welfare which means many don't "see the need to fight for their rights".

If the UK is any predictor only 45% of Unite union members vote Labor. And that would pretty much tally with the general mouthy members I've had to endure on various sites.

Garpal Gumnut · 12 April 2016

Palmer is a very complex rich piece of work. Unfortunately we have not seen the end of him yet.

Peter Beattie was the most adept, if not the most articulate, at describing him on 4C last night. It will not end "until he has left the planet"

gg

Tisme · 12 April 2016

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/04/11/4438791.htm

'

"He's an enigma. He's an individual let me tell you. They broke the mould when Clive was made."

"What you've got is this really complex character who's both brilliant and stupid all at the same time."

"He will give you loyalty, will protect you, he will do anything for you, more than a normal employer. But ...let's put it like this, loyalty there but no sentiments."

"I think he's impossible to work with. Clive's not short on ego."

"I mean as far as he's concerned, it's a benign dictatorship. You know, it's like it's my way or the highway."

Has Clive Palmer gone loco?

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