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End of the China Bull? Part 2.

why not there is plenty of madness in RE elsewhere

the Chinese ( at Evergrande ) used Western building/leveraging strategies the Chinese have a hyper-bubble in units , the West has one in office space , both will have messy outcomes (making life at the banks very stressful )
 
BEIJING -- Chinese corporate and household funds crossing the border to other countries exceeded inflows in 2023, marking the first such capital flight in five years.

Last year saw $68.7 billion of corporate and household capital leave the country on a net basis, according to monthly data kept by China's State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE).

When the last annual net outflow of funds occurred in 2018, it capped four straight years of capital flight. Following that, rising exports and pandemic-era border restrictions led to an unbroken streak where fund inflows surpassed outflows.

Now that China is dealing with persistent economic stagnation, its market is losing the power to draw and retain global capital.

According to SAFE's data, there was a notable outflow of funds concerning direct investments, such as those for factory construction. The last time direct investments experienced net fund outflows was in 2016.

Last year's net outflow of direct investment funds amounted to $118.5 billion, an all-time high for comparable figures dating back to 2010.


Unfortunately, it is now known how much of this outflow was due to Chinese corps shifting money to ther countries to build infrastructure, factories etc, how much is private citizens stashing their money overseas, and how much of it is foreign capital getting out.
Mick
 
I'm watching China for a recovery this year.

It is in what many economists consider to be an advantageous situation. It is not a democracy and not bound by fads nor fools, picking the best to push through with reforms.

Admittedly this is at a cost to freedom of speech but there is no famine nor internal disturbance even though living standards have stagnated or fallen backwards. .

A quick pivot is therefore possible. So, I see an improvement in China through 2024 and 2025, with the deployment of AI whether indigenous to China or stolen, to promote better vehicle and heavy manufacturing, pharma, housing and infrastructure.

For us this will translate to higher Copper and Iron ore prices. All good for Australia imo.

gg
 
Yesterday, one of the biggest Quant funds was suspended for 3 days for "agressive selling".
From Zero Hedge
Overnight, Chinese authorities have banned trading on the open and close, and limited the ability of shorters.
Once again from Zero hedge
That last paragraph is further examples of the way the CCP manipulates markets, society, and sentiment.
Only a vaive fool would invest in China.

A quick of the Chinese stock exchange Index shows a fairky dismal performance over the last ten years.
Still around 30% of its value of the 2015 highs.

Mick
 
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In a further crackdown on trading to support its stock market, Chinese authorities have bbanned another quant and cracked down on HFT .
From Zero Hedge
Just days after China cracked down on quant funds, Beijing took our advice (from around 2009) and started cracking down on the market parasites better known as HFTs (which Michael Lewis decided to give a starring role in his 2014 book Flash Boys about five years after we first popularized this market segment).

Certainly, given the fact that China's CSI has been the best performed index in Februrary, we can say that the CCP has achieved their aim.
History suggests that these types of interventions are but temporary. Look for the CSI to resume its downward trend.
Mick
 
Mick
 
is this the China thread ? There seem to be so many of them.

The FT recently ran with a story (paywalled) that the place is a mess and efforts to turn around are not working.

an excerpt

... Here's a similar article from around the traps:

Will Beijing’s market stimulus reignite China’s real economy?

By Peter Milios | More Articles by Peter Milios



Chinese markets have reacted positively, albeit briefly, to Beijing’s "unprecedented" measures aimed at stabilizing capital markets and boosting investor sentiment. However, the bigger question remains whether these initiatives will be enough to reignite the faltering real economy.
On Tuesday, the People's Bank of China (PBoC) unveiled an RMB800 billion ($114 billion) package to support the stock market by providing loans to asset managers, insurers, and brokers for equity purchases, as well as offering funds for listed companies to conduct stock buybacks. This marks the first time the PBoC has employed such monetary policy tools specifically to bolster capital markets, a move central bank governor Pan Gongsheng described as "innovative." If successful, the fund could be expanded significantly.

Although the announcement briefly lifted the Chinese stock market, with the CSI 300 index rising 4.3%, economists are skeptical about the long-term impact. Despite the short-term boost, concerns about the broader economy linger. Jason Lui, head of Asia-Pacific equities strategy at BNP Paribas, highlighted the novelty of some of these tools, such as the new lending and swap facility, but acknowledged the uncertainty around how willing institutions will be to assume the risks associated with stock purchases using PBoC loans.
The measures also come amid other PBoC stimulus actions, including interest rate cuts and reductions in downpayment requirements for mortgages. However, analysts, including those at Morgan Stanley, noted that while these initiatives are positive for market sentiment, they are not enough to ensure China’s broader economic recovery.

Economists argue that a more comprehensive fiscal stimulus is required, particularly to address the ongoing property slump, which continues to weigh on household confidence and spending. Without a significant bailout for the property sector, experts warn that consumer spending will remain subdued, prolonging the economic slowdown despite efforts to boost the stock market
.
 
I thought about this yesterday and thought it's like applying a bandaid to a fracture. Hope I'm wrong being so cynical.
 
Interesting, one thing i think worth noting is that all focus is on domestic consumption, rightly but most of the China economics deniers,( i reuse the term voluntarily) always point to competitiveness in oversea market, how the inshoring of manufacturing by the west will kill the China thread etc etc.
That view is obsolete imho..and i believe these article bring back a lot of real world in the debate..
Domestic economy and consumption is what matters there as it does in the US.
I also can not hold on my level of irony when commentators just say that China should boost QE, spray money via helicopters and increase social security payments.
We all know how successful this recipe was in the EU, US of A and now Australia.
Debt bloated overfed governments in a debt spiral..
I hope for China ..and so for Australia, that they will find a more reasonable way out.
Looking at the US example, this ciuld also be the best way for us not being bombed out as a distraction for the Chinese populace...
 
from an analyst out there... their stock market has lifted recently .
"The price/earnings ratio of China’s stocks is often cited as low and attractive. But it has always been low, except in previous episodes of heightened market activity...
"By August, household deposits reached CNY148trn, 85 per cent higher than August 2019 (pre-COVID). It seems that the authorities want to mobilise idle funds to revive the [Chinese] capital market
 
no bull

Outflows from US-listed emerging market ETFs that invest across developing nations, as well as those that target specific countries, totalled $US5.57 billion in the week ended April 11, the most in a year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Of that total, $US3.69 billion came from China.

The $US5.6 billion iShares China Large-Cap ETF recorded $US1.2 billion in outflows last week, while the KraneShares CSI China Internet ETF saw more than $US1 billion in withdrawals and the Xtrackers Harvest CSI 300 China A-Shares ETF recorded $US780 million in redemptions. In each case, the outflows were records.
 
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