There comes the time when very few are left, and you have to represent all those who have fallen, whatever your personal views.Me? an ex serviceman. Like many of my cohorts I have never been to an Anzac day ceremony and never will. War is best remembered as total folly instigated by those who are well past fighting age.
It is beyond my comprehension how anyone can conjure up visions of noble acts and willing self sacrifice when the reality is young person (friend or foe) lying in his own gore screaming (usually for his mother) while his life ebbs away.
The people that I know that have served in actual war events,do not want to be reminded of it.Without exception they do not speak of their experiences and only attest to the folly of war.
Injuries and resulting bad medical treatment ruined his life...I think that he marched once on Anzac day.
My old man avoided anything to do with the war like the plague as well.Yes, I agree with that. My grandfather refused to apply for his war service medals; he said that if he had to apply for them then they weren't worth it (not sure if you still have to do this, I am talking many years ago now.) My mother said when he returned from WWI he wouldn't even set a mouse trap because he had already seen too much killing. He never marched either. Nor did my Dad.
My Grandfather suffered from being in the trenches and returned to Australia with a much weakened heart. But the Government wouldn't even acknowledge that his illnesses were a result of war service. As I posted earlier, he died of a heart condition in his early fifties - no other member of my family (on that side) has heart problems.
When I see the publicity that even 1 death of a soldier receives now, I don't think the media could have 'survived' the deaths experienced during the Great Wars. None of those soldiers received anything like the offer of a state funeral, nor a PM condolence speech like they get now.
4 . There's no Anzac in Afghanistan
Jeff Sparrow writes:
Terrorism expert Clive Williams recently provided a helpful insight into the Pashtun devil-children we face in Afghanistan:
They, of course, have a very long experience of fighting, particularly against foreigners. […] That is their way of life. To be a man in their society, to be regarded as manly, you've got to have war experience. Their culture is built around fighting others.
A Pashtun academic studying the recent Anzac Day celebrations might, with equal legitimacy, come to the same conclusion about Australians.
The death of everyone who actually suffered during the Great War has severed the always tenuous connection between Anzac and reality, transforming the occasion into a free floating signifier of military virtue. Thus Kevin Rudd was able to sum up the disastrous Gallipoli invasion in terms of “the deep sense of liberty for which our forebears fought.”
It was, presumably, that love for liberty that enabled us to beat off Johnny Turk when he stormed Sydney Harbour … oh, wait.
The prevalence of such national fantasies about military history would matter less if we weren’t currently involved in a real war, in which, as we’ve just discovered, real people really die.
The occupation of Afghanistan has now been underway for significantly longer than the First World War. Yet are Australians any clearer about what our contingent is supposedly doing in that country than they were about the aims of the Gallipoli campaign?
Certainly, the politicians don’t seem to be.
Following the death of Lance Corporal Jason Marks, Rudd predicted that many more lives would be lost. So why remain?
“We are there,” he said, “because a failed state was giving open succour and support to a global terrorist organisation, al-Qaeda, which then attacked our ally the US on September the 11th, 2001, and in the process, murdered 3000 people."
Brendan Nelson added casually that the war might last for a generation. He threw the Bali bombings into the mix, on the basis that three of the perpetrators supposedly trained in Afghanistan.
The fatuousness of suggestions that an occupation of Afghanistan makes terrorism in our region less likely means that, on the rare occasions that the war actually features in our newspapers, it’s usually presented in the kinds of mythic terms that Rudd used on Anzac Day.
“We are a good people,” he said, “who want for the good of others.”
Yet despite the undeniable odiousness of the Taliban, the complex situation in Afghanistan scarcely translates into a simple morality play. For a start, the government brought into power by the US invasion consists largely of warlords, with a grim record of human rights abuses. The campaign against opium production which plays so well in the Western press leaves local farmers impoverished and embittered. That’s why there’s been a rise in popular support for the Taliban, with US generals expecting record levels of attacks in 2008.
More fundamentally, the history of Afghanistan over the last century involves a string of occupations, all of which generated popular resistance. No-one’s been able to explain why this one should be any different.
Michelle Grattan’s scarcely some anti-war hippy. But note her conclusion: “We are in a conflict with no time frame, a significant likelihood that it will turn out badly in the end, and no exit strategy."
thank you for providing some balance against the increasing romanticisation of war.
ANZAC Day is romanticising war? Golly Julia, which Dawn Services have you been going to?Robert, Prospector and Wayne: thank you for providing some balance against the increasing romanticisation of war.
When Australian SAS troops come home bragging how many Iraqis that they killed ,I think that our involvement is in question.
If I've offended anyone with the use of the word 'romanticisation' I apologise.The people that I know that have served in actual war events,do not want to be reminded of it.Without exception they do not speak of their experiences and only attest to the folly of war.
This Gallipolli journey seems to have become a cult event .You had to be there!
As Hebrides said the old men start the wars and the young men fight them.
They do this for a variety of reasons,young,adventurous and reckless rate very highly.
Australia has only been threatened once and that was by the Japanese in WW2.
However ,as the Japanese war histories show,there were never any plans to invade Australia.
Their two main objectives were the metals in Manchuria and the oil in Indonesia.Any thrust toward Australia and bombing of Darwin were ,I assume,to keep enemies from striking distance of their oil.
I have got war relics from my uncle buried,along with his faithful dog,on my property.
Injuries and resulting bad medical treatment ruined his life...I think that he marched once on Anzac day.
A bit damp in the Hills today robert? Good to see at last!I tried to get my local member ,Alexander Downer,to verify the story for me and of course he would not buy into that.
Of course you haven't heard of any Australians bragging about their kill rate in Iraq.
good stuff DavidG/day everyone, names Dave & a newie here & have been enjoying reading, I have been particularly interested in your Anzac thread as my poem was read by Lt.Col. Paul Murphy (Ret.) at Villers-Bretonneux school & 2 of my books 1st vol & 2nd vol. were presented to the school for their library. I will paste the poem for you all to read.
Villers-Bretonneux
.... Helping to slow the advancing war, “history changing course”
G/day Prospector, sorry, but I am not a historian but have always loved history & especially Aussie war history, I am currently working on our rats of Tobuk & love the accolades our guys in any of our forces recieve, when the germans, under the leadership of Erwin Rommell, tried to take Tobruk failed when confronted by the Aussies, (their were some other nations there but in very small numbers), It's been said Hitler asked why the might of the german army was stopped by a division of colonials, to which Rommell was reported to reply "Sir they are not a division of colonials, they are a division of Australians, give me 2 divisions of Australians & I will conquer the world for you". Dave.
P, I can ´t see how you can be serious about commenting on these issues when you didn ´t even know the dates of this most important conflict, and your grandfather was there?Maybe you could explain why it is only this year that there has been any focus at all on Villers Bretonneux, given that on the 25th April 90 years ago, the Australians gained a major foothold against the German onslaught. I didn't even know about the actual date until this year, nor I think, did most Australians. Yet my grandfather served there.
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