Anyone successfully trading ASX intraday ranges with CFDs?

Joules MM1 · 11 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
No I don't think that is what I just asked you
"I think I can assume that a 2 point spread buying/selling '@ market' in you mind/trading is not an impediment to long term intraday profitability. Are you taking reasonable size moves consistently?"

As I said with my results it really makes a bit diff to me making money or not. And I was wondering if it dose not effect you?

not really, not an impediment......planning is vital......knowing/planning when to engage and with what discipline (as much as a I hate that inferrence, because discipline denotes trading out of a set box and the market is dynamic so cannot be contained)

here is an excerpt from another site, where I said prior to the us open and prior to the oz cash close:

Joules MM1
6/8/2007 2:20:55 PM looks like the xjo is going to get to the 6140 area that I thought it would reach last week........the next major support for the spx is 1480 and the futes are already at 1490 so I'd say we'd be seeing an attempt to make a genuine buy-up tonite into monday............I did note a few capitulative volume spikes for the first time this moring in the US session.........this is a good sign that large money is taking on volume while weakhands throw-in the towel.........still to enough to be convincing.........a few jitttery voices appearing around so first real signs of fear-sells should eventuate.........I'll be watching the oz post cash futes to see if they get aggressive........doubt it..........alls well, who plan well eh.........

that is the exact post.......the spx cfd (pre us cash open) went down to 1481 support area (that's the cash support) and the xjo cfd hit right on the cash support area although you won't see that in the cash movement when the oz market open tomorrow.........

again, todays a closed day so it was a good opportunity to come in here and chat with you.........be well and thanks for the convo

Joules

>Apocalypto< · 12 June 2007

telstrareg said:
I’ve been having a go recently with $10/side order just to try and get a feel. It seems that by the time I’m confident there is a certain trend in play, I place an order and the trend runs out of steam. I’m lucky to cover my commission and often have to forfeit part of it. It’s rare to find XAO following a single trend for the whole day, so often your trying to deal with 2 or 3 turns. My comm is 10 basis points, so I need 0.2% to start making a profit. Since I’m probably going to be wrong about half the time, to make it worthwhile I need to be on trend that goes for at least 0.65%.

Can anyone suggest any good stocks for this style of trading? Admittedly the ranges have been narrowing these last few days as the market has been making lower highs.

Hi,

I am trading the IGXJO,

i chose Ig due to no brokerage and 5$ or 25 per point so small wins add up. I never day trade anything with wide spreads as it makes a hard job 21 times harder.

when i open a position i add 2 points to my entry straight away due to the spread.

so I look to make 3 points per trade. or a total of 5 from open.

chart shows my trades for today.

Trembling Hand · 12 June 2007

Trade_It said:
Hi,

I am trading the IGXJO,

i chose Ig due to no brokerage and 5$ or 25 per point so small wins add up. I never day trade anything with wide spreads as it makes a hard job 21 times harder.

when i open a position i add 2 points to my entry straight away due to the spread.

so I look to make 3 points per trade. or a total of 5 from open.

chart shows my trades for today.

And where do you have your stop if your aim is 3 points? it would only have to tickaway from you one point to have a larger stop than you profit target??

>Apocalypto< · 12 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
And where do you have your stop if your aim is 3 points? it would only have to tickaway from you one point to have a larger stop than you profit target??

i have may stop at 1 point higher then the last high before the entry, due to i was going short here, i will also place my stop 5 points above my trade due to buy retracements go higher then sells, you don't want to get stopped out to early.

6297 was stop on first trade 6290 on continuation

you do risk losing more then u make, so setup in critical it has to form in a way to make a trade there a meny more rules then i have said......

again the setup is critical to take the trade.

Trembling Hand · 12 June 2007

Trade_It said:
i have may stop at 1 point higher then the last high before the entry, due to i was going short here, i will also place my stop 5 points above my trade due to buy retracements go higher then sells, you don't want to get stopped out to early.

6297 was stop on first trade 6290 on continuation

you do risk losing more then u make, so setup in critical it has to form in a way to make a trade there a meny more rules then i have said......

again the setup is critical to take the trade.

So you must be picking many more winners that losers?
Did you say you look to take 3 points per trade and have a possible 7 point loss

>Apocalypto< · 12 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
So you must be picking many more winners that losers?
Did you say you look to take 3 points per trade and have a possible 7 point loss

ok..........day trading is very fast and not all tardes are just left to stop alot of the time i wont have a stop order i will know where it is not looking good and were it is. if i think its not looking good i will bail.

i know where my maximum loss area is. if it gets there i close. once i open the position i automatically prepare it to be closed on the click of a button.

three point is what i do my best to get out with, if it is a good continuation i will leave it in for more.

things change very fast on a 2min like i said in my last post, set up is what makes or breaks it how it forms and how choppy it is into the lead of the set up, the range of the retracments getting bigger smaller number of them, is it a peak of a lower high in the day or just in the micro trend..............

all have to be considered before the open plus more!

and yes if i qualifiy the above and more and it checks out in my head i do take more winners......... but some break even it is hard line to pick at times, reversal or a healthy continuation rally in the case of my shorts on the chart. losses add up much quicker then wins. thats whey set up need so much attention. you want to see a smooth run in the prices not a wild choppy mess.

are you day trading or just looking for a perfect system?

Trembling Hand · 12 June 2007

Trade_It

I was just wondering if you are scalping for 3 point winners, which is what i mostly do all day long on the spi200, and you are buying/selling at market and your stop is greater than your profit you would have to trade heaps and nail near on most (80%)? I assume you trade only 1 or 2 contacts ($5 or $10 per point?) @ a time if not it is cheaper to trade the SPI200 and pay brokerage.

professor_frink · 12 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
Trade_It

I was just wondering if you are scalping for 3 point winners, which is what i mostly do all day long on the spi200, and you are buying/selling at market and your stop is greater than your profit you would have to trade heaps and nail near on most (80%)? I assume you trade only 1 or 2 contacts ($5 or $10 per point?) @ a time if not it is cheaper to trade the SPI200 and pay brokerage.

Had a quick look at your blog today Trembling Hand(nice work by the way), and most of your charts appear to be 5 minute. Do you scalp off that kind of timeframe?

Trembling Hand · 12 June 2007

professor_frink said:
Had a quick look at your blog today Trembling Hand(nice work by the way), and most of your charts appear to be 5 minute. Do you scalp off that kind of timeframe?

Well not really I have 4 charts up of the spi200 15min, 5min, 2min & 1 min.
Also flip the 15 min between 60 min and day every now and again just to see how that’s looking. You know MA's, support/resistance. Was going to do a post about that some time really most of my trades come from the 1 min and 2 min charts but its nice to see what the spi looks like on different time frames so you don't end up trading against a big set up on something not obvious on the smaller interval charts.

As for the blog post most the 5 min charts show the prevailing day trend so it’s an easy way of showing something.

Thanks for having a look @ the blog it is a bit rough at the moment but I will tighten it up over time.

Captain_Chaza · 12 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
Well not really I have 4 charts up of the spi200 15min, 5min, 2min & 1 min.
Also flip the 15 min between 60 min and day every now and again just to see how that’s looking. You know MA's, support/resistance. Was going to do a post about that some time really most of my trades come from the 1 min and 2 min charts but its nice to see what the spi looks like on different time frames so you don't end up trading against a big set up on something not obvious on the smaller interval charts.

As for the blog post most the 5 min charts show the prevailing day trend so it’s an easy way of showing something.

Thanks for having a look @ the blog it is a bit rough at the moment but I will tighten it up over time.

It's good to see that you are only looking at the 200
It would have to be with a suicidle type of consequence whether I were to margin buy on any one of these Heavyand ever so clumsy sail

Each to their own I guess
I often told my dear old mother
"She'l be right in the long term"
And amazingly "It always was !"

What I lost in the short term was never discussed!
Nobody loses in the Long term I told her!

She was a lot older than I so I figured I could take a much longer point of view! LOL!
Salute and Gods' speed

>Apocalypto< · 12 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
Trade_It

I was just wondering if you are scalping for 3 point winners, which is what i mostly do all day long on the spi200, and you are buying/selling at market and your stop is greater than your profit you would have to trade heaps and nail near on most (80%)? I assume you trade only 1 or 2 contacts ($5 or $10 per point?) @ a time if not it is cheaper to trade the SPI200 and pay brokerage.

TH,

sorry to make that comment at the end of my last post.

Read your blog good stuff there. Bolinger bands is something that has always interested me but i have never really looked further.I see your on the spi battle field.

I have not been using my current day trading system long, I am making trades but there are areas eg profit stops that need further assessment.

ok 3 point trades. once a trade gets into 5 point profit. i wach the way it is acting very carefully, in the band or retrace that is happening.

i may take profits and then renter on a new confirmed continuation trade. Or i will hand on.

many factors determine that.

primarily i am a positions trader, but i am now looking at intraday much more, hence why i am playing around on the IGXJO for now my next move is the spi and other indexes Emini for 1.

The spread is a pain in the ass, but for now while i fine tune my eye for what i am looking for it's fine but regards to the losses the spread can damage a lot of good work.

hence why i really have to observe solid set ups.

cheers Joseph

chart of todays trades the long was a break even due to the spread. and there not all as good as today! was a great day

Trembling Hand · 12 June 2007

Yeah the combination of the spread and at market orders does knock you around a bit. Certainly it’s not a 'brokerage free trade’ but for dipping your toe in to the index market it’s not a bad place to start. $25 per point on the spi is a bit heavy to learn I think.
Will have a post on my blog comparing the spi trade to CFDs cost soon, keep an eye out for it.

professor_frink · 13 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
Well not really I have 4 charts up of the spi200 15min, 5min, 2min & 1 min.
Also flip the 15 min between 60 min and day every now and again just to see how that’s looking. You know MA's, support/resistance. Was going to do a post about that some time really most of my trades come from the 1 min and 2 min charts but its nice to see what the spi looks like on different time frames so you don't end up trading against a big set up on something not obvious on the smaller interval charts.

As for the blog post most the 5 min charts show the prevailing day trend so it’s an easy way of showing something.

Thanks for having a look @ the blog it is a bit rough at the moment but I will tighten it up over time.

Good stuff Trembling hand. Agree about having up multiple charts for that kind of trading, it's almost essential, though I can get away with 2 timeframes for the HSI presently(at least until I get more screen space!)

Trembling Hand · 13 June 2007

professor_frink
Yes screen space. Oh to have a couple wiz bang 30" Dells.

To get back on topic” Anyone successfully trading ASX intraday ranges with CFDs?”
Have a look at this to see your real cost with CFDs

>Apocalypto< · 13 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
professor_frink
Yes screen space. Oh to have a couple wiz bang 30" Dells.

To get back on topic” Anyone successfully trading ASX intraday ranges with CFDs?”
Have a look at this to see your real cost with CFDs

TH,

Great post on your blog.

from seeing that all laid out awnsers a lot of questions i had about trading the IG indexes.

I was looking on ASX website at there mini futures contract and i think its the best way to go.

Contract Initial Margin Intermonth Spread Charge
Mini 200 $1,845 $100

is the mini the mini SPI?

i always have not liked there spreads in day trading and even in position trading there after hours prices can do weird things. but i still have a lot fun trading there xjo

one thing i will say indefence of IG is that they offer more competitive spreads on some of there FX pairs.

now finding a broker!

Trembling Hand · 13 June 2007

Unfortunately I think the mini spi on the ASX has not a lot going on it at all. So you will be stuck with the same problem, big spreads. The tight spreads are on the real thing on the SFX but you need a bit of $$ to be trading $25 per point.

I'm not totally against the CFD indexes they are a good tool to learn on but I’m just trying to give the heads up on what’s not always clear at first look.

i.e. It's HARD TO WIN AT THIS GAME.

>Apocalypto< · 13 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
i.e. It's HARD TO WIN AT THIS GAME.

depends how u play...........

>Apocalypto< · 13 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
Unfortunately I think the mini spi on the ASX has not a lot going on it at all. So you will be stuck with the same problem, big spreads. The tight spreads are on the real thing on the SFX but you need a bit of $$ to be trading $25 per point.

I'm not totally against the CFD indexes they are a good tool to learn on but I’m just trying to give the heads up on what’s not always clear at first look.

i.e. It's HARD TO WIN AT THIS GAME.

Intra day is a interest of mine which i am not rushing into it. position trading is still my main style. finding and locking into short trem trends looking to make 400+ return of each new break after sell off and support. that's in the current market.

i see you point and thanks for bloging it TH.

P.S you may have some angy CFD companys looking for u soon to shove some hush money down your gobb LOL

Edwood · 14 June 2007

trembling Hand said:
Unfortunately I think the mini spi on the ASX has not a lot going on it at all. So you will be stuck with the same problem, big spreads. The tight spreads are on the real thing on the SFX but you need a bit of $$ to be trading $25 per point.

I'm not totally against the CFD indexes they are a good tool to learn on but I’m just trying to give the heads up on what’s not always clear at first look.

i.e. It's HARD TO WIN AT THIS GAME.

to add my 2pence - in my experience with spreadbets, which are similar to CFD's, you need to be prepared to hold out of hours. intra-day only on ASX with CFD's is tough going in my opinion. Trade Its strategy posted earlier is good for a trending market, otherwise bollinger bands are useful for range trading, along with the usual channels & stuff, but I have found swing trading to be easier. if its intra-day only you really have to maximise the gap opens

macca · 14 June 2007

Hi TH,

After reading your blog I have a question.

Wouldn't there have to be a gap of one point between the buy/sell of a future ?

Don't see how they could be the same price, which means the difference between futures and CFD still exists but would be less than your example.

I don't trade these things but I am interested in trading the SPI200, that is why I am reading

If I am wrong could you please explain why /how

thanks

Anyone successfully trading ASX intraday ranges with CFDs?

Joules MM1

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