Australia's two party political system and political reform

[JohnDe]

Very few House votes are invalid, so as I repeat, many voters end up ultimately giving a vote to a candidate they vehemently don't want. There is no avoiding this fact, and no amount of education will change it.
The reform can only come from changing the system.
By the way, before Gough was tossed out I had a long argument with my Politics tutor at uni that Our Governor General was the arbiter rather than the Queen. Now we are the wiser. So why we still have a constitutional monarchy is beyond me.

Education will change things, too many people do not understand our system and then portion blame incorrectly.

During my time in political study not all the info was available about the 'dismissal', now due to most of the letters being released we know a lot more and still it is divisive. Just like the discussion about how to vote and the power people have without knowing, because they were not educated properly about it in school.

 

[wayneL]

Very few House votes are invalid, so as I repeat, many voters end up ultimately giving a vote to a candidate they vehemently don't want. There is no avoiding this fact, and no amount of education will change it.
The reform can only come from changing the system.

I agree with the first part of your argument. I disagree with the second part of your argument, the exception that it would be extremely difficult in Australian society.

I am open to your third argument, and would be interested in ideas along these lines.

 

[rederob]

Education will change things, too many people do not understand our system and then portion blame incorrectly.

During my time in political study not all the info was available about the 'dismissal', now due to most of the letters being released we know a lot more and still it is divisive. Just like the discussion about how to vote and the power people have without knowing, because they were not educated properly about it in school.

You and @wayneL are making the point about better education so please explain how this would change an outcome.

 

[wayneL]

You and @wayneL are making the point about better education so please explain how this would change an outcome.

Expanding ones choice outside of the LNP or the Labor Party.

While this may not in the near term result in a change of government outside of these two parties, it may result in a change in the balance of power.

This may lead onto other longer-term changes.

These changes have in fact happened in our own history and also history of other other countries.

Example, the death of the Australian conservative party and the birth of the Liberal party under Menzies.

This is not the only example of such.

In fact one can look at the history of the Labor Parry for a similar example.

One need only look at the alienation of both the liberal and labor parties from their core constituencies, to imagine and new political paradigm at grass roots level.

This has in fact happened many times before

 

[rederob]

Expanding ones choice outside of the LNP or the Labor Party.

Already exists.

While this may not in the near term result in a change of government outside of these two parties, it may result in a change in the balance of power.

That's the present system, so not an explanation.

This may lead onto other longer-term changes.

No, it's the present system.

These changes have in fact happened in our own history and also history of other other countries.

What changes?
You have kept the present system!

Example, the death of the Australian conservative party and the birth of the Liberal party under Menzies.

Means nothing, as the Shooters and Fishers or the SexParty can equally be born without any changes to the present system.
Palmer's Senators deserted him and remained in Parliament, but our election system did not change.
Joh put an incompetent into the Senate in his day, but again, that's what the system allowed at the time, so it was changed.

One need only look at the alienation of both the liberal and labor parties from their core constituencies, to imagine and new political paradigm at grass roots level.

That's not a change to anything systemic.

All you have done is present the status quo and some problems it throws up.

 

[wayneL]

Already exists.

That's the present system, so not an explanation.

No, it's the present system.

What changes?
You have kept the present system!

Means nothing, as the Shooters and Fishers or the SexParty can equally be born without any changes to the present system.
Palmer's Senators deserted him and remained in Parliament, but our election system did not change.
Joh put an incompetent into the Senate in his day, but again, that's what the system allowed at the time, so it was changed.

That's not a change to anything systemic.

All you have done is present the status quo and some problems it throws up.

Well I did think we were getting somewhere, Rob. Alas, no.

Anyway, I would be interested in your ideas for reform. How would you proceed from here, if you had your way?

 

[rederob]

Well I did think we were getting somewhere, Rob. Alas, no.

Anyway, I would be interested in your ideas for reform. How would you proceed from here, if you had your way?

I outlined the idea earlier.
Did you miss it?

 

[Investoradam]

Very few House votes are invalid, so as I repeat, many voters end up ultimately giving a vote to a candidate they vehemently don't want. There is no avoiding this fact, and no amount of education will change it.
The reform can only come from changing the system.
By the way, before Gough was tossed out I had a long argument with my Politics tutor at uni that Our Governor General was the arbiter rather than the Queen. Now we are the wiser. So why we still have a constitutional monarchy is beyond me.

no. it was Garbage Gough that allowed for the corruption to begin. the spying & infiltration on Australian senators and politicians then the signing of the LIMA declaration allowing the United Nations to dictate terms where we have the LNP and ALP who are basically the same party with the same over lords

 

[rederob]

no. it was Garbage Gough that allowed for the corruption to begin. the spying & infiltration on Australian senators and politicians then the signing of the LIMA declaration allowing the United Nations to dictate terms where we have the LNP and ALP who are basically the same party with the same over lords

Do you know the price of eggs?

 

[Investoradam]

Do you know the price of eggs?

is there an app in your fictional world that tells you

 

[macca]

Now we are the wiser. So why we still have a constitutional monarchy is beyond me.

Ye gods We agree on something.................

 

[rederob]

is there an app in your fictional world that tells you

I buy direct from a small farm at $5/dozen because these chooks are free to roam, not caged, and their eggs actually taste different because of what they eat. I could buy cheaper at Woolies.

Would you like to now post something on the topic or will we just suffer more of your typically ill informed, nonsensical off-topic comments?

 

[Investoradam]

I buy direct from a small farm at $5/dozen because these chooks are free to roam, not caged, and their eggs actually taste different because of what they eat. I could buy cheaper at Woolies.

Would you like to now post something on the topic or will we just suffer more of your typically ill informed, nonsensical off-topic comments?

a leftist is not well informed. as lenin called them "useful idiots" to the cause

 

[wayneL]

So why we still have a constitutional monarchy is beyond me.

Having lived through the last referendum on the matter, it's kind of like the choice between Liberal and Labor, it's the least bad option.

The republican movement blew it
by presenting a republican model that was not acceptable to the Australian people.

I am a republican in principal, but it better be a good model and an improvement on the current system, otherwise no thank you.