Israel Folau - Breach of contract or right to free speech?

[SirRumpole]

You want a right to harm others by expressing your opinions in public.

"Harm" is your opinion.

You have to have a pretty thin skin not to be able to take some criticism sometimes.

 

[rederob]

"Harm" is your opinion.

You have to have a pretty thin skin not to be able to take some criticism sometimes.

Specific harms are outlined in Section 18C and have been covered ad nauseum.
You have yet to mention what laws you are relying on for the points you keep making, so this is my last reply.

 

[SirRumpole]

so this is my last reply.

Helleujah.

 

[PZ.]

Well, this is just another example of restriction by stealth.

You may say that these restrictions apply to you, and I take your word for it, the question is "should they" ?

Do you enjoy the fact that your private life is the business of your employer ? Do you AGREE that it SHOULD be so ? Or do you just accept it because otherwise you wouldn't have a job ? I think your second paragraph basically admits that it was overreach by employers who had governments on their side at the time and no other government bothered to retract these employer "rights".

I know this has moved on a bit but to answer your question I just accepted it to keep my job.
I don't agree it should be so and that's one reason I transferred to another part of the company where my private life was more secure. But now it's far more intrusive. I could be sacked simply for posting a photo of my workplace on social media. Overreach it is but that's the rule and smart people follow it if they want to keep their job. Personally, I don't think Israel Folau was very smart on that day.

 

[PZ.]

No word from these PC warriors about the 'adulterers', 'fornicators', 'thieves' or 'idolaters'..

Obviously not. These people aren't the same identity as atheists or gays.

 

[SirRumpole]

I know this has moved on a bit but to answer your question I just accepted it to keep my job.
I don't agree it should be so and that's one reason I transferred to another part of the company where my private life was more secure. But now it's far more intrusive. I could be sacked simply for posting a photo of my workplace on social media. Overreach it is but that's the rule and smart people follow it if they want to keep their job. Personally, I don't think Israel Folau was very smart on that day.

I quite understand your position, most do the same thing, ie just sign the contract and accept it.

The unions don't seem to be kicking up a fuss about it, maybe they have been paid off to shut up.

 

[Logique]

Don't want to labour the point too much. Hopefully RA can now pick up the pieces and work towards a professional future for the sport.

Sorry it's behind a paywall:
Castle Falls
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/04/castle-falls/
By: Karalee Katsambanis -24 April 2020
"...[RA] now understood to be nearly $16 million in debt...
...Ironically, no one targeted in Folau’s tweet took offence or launched action against him, despite the continuing all-pervasive spectre of our authoritarian anti-discrimination laws.

Instead, it was Castles and Rugby Australia who saw red...tried to evoke trendy buzzwords like inclusiveness and other nonsensical PC-speak.
But eventually, after much publicity and costly legal action, Rugby Australia was forced to apologise and settled the dispute with Folau..."

 

[moXJO]

Sorry Rob but you have rights at work. I also posted up the laws, that from memory you didn't know at the time. Or that what he quoted was actually a bible quote.

There were no social media contracts and what he posted was a religious quote. You would have to prove he intended harm or if he was of the misguided opinion he was saving souls.

It was not cut and dry.

Then you have Qantas CEO pushing for his sacking which I'm sure would have gone down like a lead balloon.

RA would not have jumped to a settlement if they thought they were on a sure thing. They couldn't afford it in the first place.

 

[sptrawler]

As I've said on numerous occasions, an employer has every right to discipline an employee, for misconduct or unlawfully behaviour.
Folau breached the employer's code of conduct and RA had every right to discipline him.
It is the severity of the punishment that would be tested, not the fact punishment was served IMO.
Just a stupid gross overreaction and display of poor management, it is due to decisions like this that unfair dismissal laws were introduced.
Also RA management apparently had more examples of poor performance, than just the Folau case.

 

[rederob]

It is the severity of the punishment that would be tested, not the fact punishment was served IMO.
Just a stupid gross overreaction and display of poor management, it is due to decisions like this that unfair dismissal laws were introduced.
Also RA management apparently had more examples of poor performance, than just the Folau case.

Absolute bunkum.
Rather than keep venturing your opinions, how about posting on what you actually know about this case?
Folau breached his employment contract.
Folau was represented by counsel at a tribunal hearing and admitted his actions were not appropriate.
Folau's actions were going to cost RA multimillions in lost sponsorship, so his payout was always going to be small bickies in the scheme of things.

 

[PZ.]

I quite understand your position, most do the same thing, ie just sign the contract and accept it.

The unions don't seem to be kicking up a fuss about it, maybe they have been paid off to shut up.

Maybe he wasn't a union member

Although looking at some of the scary deals the unions are reaching with the ScoMo Govt at the moment I'd say your last sentence has credibility. But that's for another thread

 

[sptrawler]

The left wing will be after Folau again, not following their prescribed protocol yet again.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/fo...3-p55hx3.html?js-chunk-not-found-refresh=true
From the article:
Catalans coach Steve McNamara has defended Israel Folau after the controversial former Wallaby was the only player not to take a knee before a Super League clash in England.
‘‘As a club we are completely against racism and all for equal opportunity,’’ McNamara said after the match.

‘‘But there were some players and staff who made the decision not to take the knee, that was based on personal choice and we decided we would respect anyone’s personal choice on the matter.’’

Maybe RA could take a leaf out of Catalans book, on how to handle sensitive issues? That doesn't mean the press will let the issue go of course.
Just my opinion

 

[wayneL]

The red bandanaed moron had already started on Twitter. And seeing as that idiot is on the wrong side of every single issue, it proves that IF is 100% correct in his actions in not cowering to the marxists.

The man is a lion!

 

[sptrawler]

The red bandanaed moron had already started on Twitter. And seeing as that idiot is on the wrong side of every single issue, it proves that IF is 100% correct in his actions in not cowering to the marxists.

The man is a lion!

If Folau is deeply religious, I would guess he would be of the belief that all lives are equal and therefore should be respected the same.
To acknowledge that one color matters, really is not a realistic approach to the problem.
If then another faction feels they are being unjustly treated eg Asian gangs, then do they adopt the same approach?
It really is a mess.
You are right about the guy with the red bandanna, I always wonder why they print his opinion, it bears no resemblance to a balanced logical approach to issues IMO.

 

[Macquack]

Folua is a dipstick.

He probably wanted to get sacked again, so he could sue the Catalans Dragons. His actions against Rugby Australia proved very profitable.

Oh yeah, he is a good team man too.

 

[sptrawler]

Folua is a dipstick.

He probably wanted to get sacked again, so he could sue the Catalans Dragons. His actions against Rugby Australia proved very profitable.

Oh yeah, he is a good team man too.

Another way of looking at it is, Rugby Australia's actions against him proved very costly.

 

[wayneL]

I look at it this way, there is no way, whether I was black or white, that I would take a knee for anyone, whether black or white.

Content of character Vs colour of skin and all that M.L. Kingesque business.

Let us meet, as fellow humans, as equals, standing proud.

 

[sptrawler]

Oh well it looks as though the Israel Folau saga has come to a rather sad end, when those who were hanging the axe over rugby Australia's head, let it go anyway.

Qantas pulls out of Rugby Australia, Wallabies sponsorship deal

Qantas will end its 30-year sponsorship of the Wallabies and cease financial support for the Socceroos and Australian cricket teams in a desperate bid to save money.

www.smh.com.au

 

[moXJO]

Oh well it looks as though the Israel Folau saga has come to a rather sad end, when those who were hanging the axe over rugby Australia's head, let it go anyway.

Qantas pulls out of Rugby Australia, Wallabies sponsorship deal

Qantas will end its 30-year sponsorship of the Wallabies and cease financial support for the Socceroos and Australian cricket teams in a desperate bid to save money.

www.smh.com.au

No TV deal, now no sponsor. Oh and all that after a payout and bad press after the folks saga. Great leadership all round.

Go woke Go broke. Especially when Issys God sent a plague to simultaneously wipe out Australian Rugby and Qantas.
Repent ye sinners.

 

[sptrawler]

I love this thread, it keeps on giving and proves those with the pitchforks and mob rule mentality, don't always win the day. ?
How many threw themselves on the cross of sponsor obligation and self righteous discrimination, only to find their sacrifice was for nothing.

Queensland Rugby League offers Israel Folau fresh hope of NRL return

The former Wallaby’s door to the NRL may not be completely closed, with a return via the Queensland Cup reportedly being floated.

www.theguardian.com