Why Millennials are financially ruined

[frugal.rock]

As us country bumkins say,
next time the winds blowin the city direction,
we'll chuck a cup of cement powder in the wind with hopes of hardening youse up.

I never chose to be a frugal rock, it happened as a nessecity to survive.

 

[Sdajii]

I'm a little surprised at who I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with in this thread. One of the ones I'm agreeing with is, IIRC, someone who said in another thread that I never agree with anyone.

I was completely wiped to zero in March. I spent the previous 6 years outside Australia, had poured my time, effort and money into a business venture which would have kicked off mid this year, and a few short months before that time became trapped in Australia on what was planned to be a two week visit to a place I hadn't called home for about 10 years. I lost not only my business, but almost literally everything I owned - my clothes (other than about 5 changes of summer clothes), my laptop, my books, my pets, my... well, pretty much everything other than what I was wearing and what was in the day pack I arrived with. If I'd scrambled back abroad it would have been to a situation which wouldn't have been salvageable due to the 2020 nonsense anyway.

I was literally struggling to survive in early Q2 this year. I was literally without money or income, literally not owning warm clothes after about 8 years without dealing with a winter, struggling to afford to eat. Being stuck in Melbourne with my qualifications in this economy, getting employed would be almost impossible other than taking something horrible and minimum wage (and if something not quite entirely horrible for minimum wage was an option, I'd have taken it).

It's now only about 6 months after my lowest point where I was literally struggling to eat and stay warm, struggling to find a safe place to sleep, dealing with the trauma of having lost or been disconnected from everything I love, being sent pictures of my pets which had died in the (lack of) care of the best available homes, etc etc. In cash/savings/share portfolio I have more than the before tax earnings of a median wage Australian. That's not to say I've managed to earn that much, it's to say I *have* that much. I've done it without breaking laws or ethics.

If someone my age (early 40s) in extremely challenging circumstances (some may recall me discussing it earlier this year on this forum, along with a bit of personal history about how I've been down and out before, bounced back, and was optimistic about doing it again despite at that time earlier this year being quite bewildered and not knowing exactly how) who doesn't even live here and has to start from absolute scratch can manage what I have, imagine what someone who genuinely wants to save and make something of themselves can manage. Heck, I'm managing this while only planning to be here temporarily. If I was able to leave the country I'd be on my way out before the end of the week.

As someone else mentioned, people able to do the sort of thing I'm doing have generally experienced poverty and/or hardship at some point in their lives. This isn't the first or second time I've experienced it, and that has definitely given me resilience, drive and knowledge. As an example, when I had very little to do with my time around 6 months ago I haunted the supermarkets waiting for specials, and was often able to get extremely cheap food. By watching for the times things would get discounted, I'd turn up just before those times and get all the stuff just before expiry which was going out extremely cheaply, sometimes walking out with around $50-100 worth of groceries for around $5-10, and eating like a king. You can indeed eat very well for $5 per day, and for months I was eating wilted (extremely cheap) greens, chicken hearts, liver, rice, etc for less than that. If I couldn't get specials I went back to my old uni student ways and ate Mee Goreng and eggs etc. For the last couple of weeks I've been gorging on Scotch fillets and smoked salmon and an array of lovely fruits.

I'm going harder in terms of what I'm willing to do (obtaining money) as well as what I'm willing to skimp and sacrifice on (saving money) than what I'd expect of most people or what I'd generally be likely to do myself, because at my age being wiped to zero puts me in a position of more urgent catch up than if I was in my 20s, but it's far easier to do this in your 20s. I don't care if people think I'm a loser for chasing/choosing the ultra cheap food; other than for a month or so early in the year I've eaten extremely well, and other than recently I've spent very little on food, and I'm just recently rewarding myself, I figure I've earned it (my stock portfolio is up over $10k in the last week, hey, I'm going for steak and salmon). I don't care if I'm usually wearing cheap, crappy clothes. I'm not drinking alcohol (or very close to none), my entertainment has been learning Spanish Duolingo and various forms of reading/research/etc online, various forms of exercise, sometimes hunting trips when possible (I caught a deer by hand! Go me! Plenty of meat!) all of which is free. During the brief time when socialisation was legal, my friends (who were complaining about money issues) wanted to go buy expensive takeaway, thought I was crazy for suggesting we get something from the supermarket, I ate the cheapest available options and they spent about my weekly food budget on a meal, literally paying more than my normal day's food budget on a single drink!

After spending six years travelling around Asia (where I still would be if not for lockdowns/restrictions) and seeing people working so hard (literally, like 60 hour/6 day weeks, not like the nonsense Australians call hard) to live on much worse conditions than an Australian dole bludger can, as well as what I've learned from my own history in Australia as a younger fella, it just seems so easy to thrive in this country. You need to be creative, you need to be versatile, tolerant, etc, but it's really quite easy, and it's usually much easier than now.

Even someone as frugal as me won't wait 5 years between new phones, let's face it, that's just a stupid argument. Average would be 1-2 years at most. I totally echo what has been said about uni student cars. In the 90s, a university car park honestly looked barely worse than today's scrap yards, and today they look literally much better than a 90s used car lot. There was a massive change in that way between the late 90s and early 00s, I was hanging around universities through that time and was very much aware of the change as it happened, and discussed it with my lecturers often between 2002 and 2004.

Housing, sure, that's the expensive thing. *THE* (singular) expensive thing. If you can be creative enough to find a cheap accommodation option, you're laughing in terms of keeping a low budget. I'm driving around in a car covered in panel damage. I love it, gives the car character, makes people give way, and I don't have a hint of the type of pride which would make it bother me, quite the opposite, I'm proud to openly display that my values are elsewhere. The care is very reliable and a pleasure to drive.

You can whinge and say 'no one should have to talk about eating for $5 per day' and struggle to survive, and not save, or you can work hard, save hard, and do as well as you want without sacrificing anything other than the opportunity to be a lazy snob. If you think Australia is tough, go live in just about any other country with only the opportunities a local has, and then come back here.

 

[frugal.rock]

Crikey @Sdajii
Sounds like you've had it easy....
You didn't even mention dumpster diving once, lucky sod... lol.

You are one of the characters on here that I would like to have a beer with, one day.

 

[over9k]

You'd be surprised what $5 will buy.

Breakfast:
Slice wholemeal toast with vegemite (20c)
One banana (50c)
One apple or nectarine (50c)
Boiled egg (30c)

Lunch:
One wholemeal bread sandwich with cheese, sliced ham, and tomato. ($1)
One piece fruit (50c)

Dinner:
Three bean chilli (dried beans, rehydrated overnight and cooked in slow cooker with onions, canned tomatoes etc.)
Pasta and vegetable bake
Large salad (cucumbers, red onion, tomato, canned beans) with canned tuna
Large bowl minestrone soup with two slices of bread or toast
Vegetable fried rice (made with a few eggs, onion, cheapest frozen veg from Woolies and generic brand rice)

Any are easily made for approximately $2 per serve. Make in bulk (except salad) and freeze leftovers in meal sized containers.

There are many other choices, that is just a few as examples. Don't buy your fruit from Woolworths or Coles, go the independent fruit barns or farmer's markets instead.

You'd be surprised what $5 will buy.

Breakfast:
Slice wholemeal toast with vegemite (20c)
One banana (50c)
One apple or nectarine (50c)
Boiled egg (30c)

Lunch:
One wholemeal bread sandwich with cheese, sliced ham, and tomato. ($1)
One piece fruit (50c)

Dinner:
Three bean chilli (dried beans, rehydrated overnight and cooked in slow cooker with onions, canned tomatoes etc.)
Pasta and vegetable bake
Large salad (cucumbers, red onion, tomato, canned beans) with canned tuna
Large bowl minestrone soup with two slices of bread or toast
Vegetable fried rice (made with a few eggs, onion, cheapest frozen veg from Woolies and generic brand rice)

Any are easily made for approximately $2 per serve. Make in bulk (except salad) and freeze leftovers in meal sized containers.

There are many other choices, that is just a few as examples. Don't buy your fruit from Woolworths or Coles, go the independent fruit barns or farmer's markets instead.

Is this what the boomers did when they were our age?

 

[greggles]

Is this what the boomers did when they were our age?

No idea.

I'm GenX, but I've gone through very lean periods at various points in my life and I can always return to a diet like that. In fact, I've eaten that breakfast for years now. Toast with vegemite, fruit (usually banana and pears, although nectarine season is just starting so I'll be hooking into them big time) and a boiled egg. I usually grab a small handful of almonds as well. Pretty light, but it does the job. I've never eaten heavy breakfasts.

 

[over9k]

It isn't. You forget that we're the boomers' kids. I remember what things were like when I was a kid, and it wasn't even close to what you describe.


House prices are so high that my parents even state that they couldn't rebuy their place on their current salaries at today's price.

P.S - Sdajii, that's brutal man. I feel for you. Mind me asking what happened?

 

[greggles]

It isn't. You forget that we're the boomers' kids. I remember what things were like when I was a kid, and it wasn't even close to what you describe.

My parents were born before (old man) and during (mother) WWII, so I guess that makes them the generation before boomers. But we ate very simply when I was a kid. I have no idea what it was like at your house when you were a kid, or even how old you are. But my guess is you're in your 30s.

I'm not even quite sure what you're trying to say. You can't eat a diet like the one I described because you were brought up by boomers who fed you expensive food and now you can't eat anything else?

 

[frugal.rock]

Toast with vegemite

Ooh, pure luxury...
Sometimes as a treat, we had Promite.... but never Vegemite as a kid, must have been more expensive.
Remember eating ox tongue for dinner... another Gen X r.
Now, a proper treat, a fresh baguette with real butter and Vegemite...yummo!

 

[greggles]

Ooh, pure luxury...
Sometimes as a treat, we had Promite.... but never Vegemite as a kid, must have been more expensive.
Remember eating ox tongue for dinner... another Gen X r.

The only thing I couldn't really stomach as a kid was lamb's liver. Never liked the texture. And powdered milk. That **** was terrible. When the milk went off it was powdered milk and water on the Weet Bix. Terrible. Child abuse really.

 

[Smurf1976]

Even someone as frugal as me won't wait 5 years between new phones, let's face it, that's just a stupid argument. Average would be 1-2 years at most.

The issue isn't about phones in a singular sense but if someone's spending over $1k a year keeping up with the latest phones then whilst not impossible they won't, it's pretty likely that they're going to keep up with fashion in other areas too. Do that and all of a sudden it's not an extra $1k a year for a phone, now it's an extra $10k a year for phones, tablets, laptops, speakers, accessories, TV's, clothes and whatever else all in the name of fashion.

It doesn't take too many years for a pretty substantial wealth gap to open up between that person versus the one who took the $10k, invested it and compounded the returns.

With anything there will be exceptions but a life observation is that "profiling" works hence it's no surprise that marketing, employers, banks and all sorts of people use it either consciously or subconsciously. The idea that someone who acts in a certain way in a given situation won't necessarily but in practice probably will act the same way in a similar situation. Or in other words, most people are fairly predictable if you know enough about their past actions.

There will be exceptions of course as with anything but life experience to date is broadly in line with that. The richest person in the room doesn't stand out in the crowd.

 

[over9k]

My parents were born before (old man) and during (mother) WWII, so I guess that makes them the generation before boomers. But we ate very simply when I was a kid. I have no idea what it was like at your house when you were a kid, or even how old you are. But my guess is you're in your 30s.

I'm not even quite sure what you're trying to say. You can't eat a diet like the one I described because you were brought up by boomers who fed you expensive food and now you can't eat anything else?

I'm saying that boomers expect/tell us to do things that they didn't have to, making them utter hypocrites.

Yes I'm in my 30's.

 

[Smurf1976]

I'm saying that boomers expect/tell us to do things that they didn't have to, making them utter hypocrites.

FWIW I'm not old enough to be a Boomer but I've been on both sides of the fence in terms of money.

Did the 7 days a week work thing for a few years a long time ago, spent nothing that wasn't essential for years and improved my circumstances. Gets a bit boring but such is life, nobody in their right mind would knock back paid work especially not then.

To be fair though, that's probably illegal these days so not really an option for anyone now. Employers would be too scared of being sued or something these days to do things like that.

 

[over9k]

I really try to refrain from posting my personal circumstances with this kind of stuff as everything just devolves into a pity-party. I'd rather just stick with the facts of the matter, i.e the data and so forth.

 

[frugal.rock]

The only thing I couldn't really stomach as a kid was lamb's liver. Never liked the texture. And powdered milk. That **** was terrible. When the milk went off it was powdered milk and water on the Weet Bix. Terrible. Child abuse really.

Well, after a while you get to like powdered milk... I always have some in the cupboard and still use it regularly as instant coffee creamer as well as milk....
UHT milk is delicious too... sad eh.
When in Beijing, I would take bags of milk powder, it's better than their fresh milk imo.
Tinned sardines in tomato sauce with water crackers, the sort of shite cats would turn their nose up at.

I guess most of this hard living came about from circa 18% mortgage interest rates in the 80's, Keating and recession era...

 

[frugal.rock]

I really try to refrain from posting my personal circumstances with this kind of stuff as everything just devolves into a pity-party. I'd rather just stick with the facts of the matter, i.e the data and so forth.

Aye, that's the spirit laddie, there's noawt to be had from whingin...

 

[Smurf1976]

I'd rather just stick with the facts of the matter, i.e the data and so forth.

The data is pretty clear.

Comparing now with previous generations:

Official unemployment is relatively low. By the standards of the 1980's and 90's it's at a very good rate despite the recent uptick. That may change of course but it's still pretty good at the moment compared to that era. It's high compared to the period WW2 - 1970's however but then that has been the case ever since that ended, it has remained elevated ever since it's not a recent phenomenon.

Pretty much all consumer goods are unbelievably cheap by historic standards. Many services are also now far cheaper eg travel. Often better services too - radio and TV don't close down overnight and even public transport runs outside commuter hours.

Technology, physical working conditions, safety etc have improved dramatically. Even in the 1990's cars and workplaces were still death traps compared to what's required today.

The concept of bank interest has largely been abolished. It's now a token amount for loans and close to zero for deposits. That's either good or bad depending on your circumstances.

Housing is the major exception, it's drastically more expensive now than previously.

Whether or not that surge in housing prices, which is not confined to Australia, is offset by all the positives or not is where the debate really lies. I doubt anyone's going to seriously argue that safety or the price of consumer goods hasn't drastically improved.

 

[tech/a]

Don’t care what Stats say
Don’t care what was.
Don't care what is.

We were all born naked and penniless.
WE control our destiny.

Doing the same thing day in day out and
expecting a different result is the mantra
of the masses.

Your either IN it or watching it.
Your choice.

 

[tech/a]

I have 3 grand kids leaving school this year. (Foster Kids sons and daughters of)

For the last 3 years I've been working at how important your choices you make during your education
are as you get older.
It didn't sink in ---selfies---Reality you tubes and Instagrams consumed every spare hour.

Last week as if by design all three GOT IT.

In a month NO SCHOOL.

No friends group hanging around during and after school.

NO Further education either as they didn't have high enough ATAR scores. Perhaps some TAFE is available.
But without question the careers they all want to pursue are so far out of their reach they cannot be considered.
They are in the Crowd pool--they dont stick out--unless they hang with the Crowd they thought they'd be in.

Education isn't EVERYTHING I failed Year 11 and am in the 3% that wont ever qualify for a pension.
But if you dont have an education you need street smarts and that comes from a lifetime of hard
knocks. These guys dont have what it takes to get knocked down and get up again over and over and over.

There is a solution but not having to face it is far better than going the hard road.

My kids by the way actually took my advice--their roads have still been tough BUT
they have choices! (unfortunately our Foster Kids did their best but are sadly
badly broken). In EVERY case they have an immovable US V THEM mentality.
They are owed buy everyone and I mean everyone.

Unfortunately the world is disproportionately BROKEN

 

[TraderJimmy]

With my kids (middle school age), I've done what my parents didn't do for me - teach them about finance, risk and wealth. Thankfully they're learning it in school as well. I was lucky to marry someone who was brought up to value every cent - so I learned a lot in my first 10 years after leaving home - get rich slow, don't spend what you don't have, budgets etc - it's not rocket science. I want my kids to have that knowledge from the start.

@tech/a is right, education allows you to polevault over the tougher "hard knocks" route. Still no guarantee, but a huge +.

 

[againsthegrain]

I have 3 grand kids leaving school this year. (Foster Kids sons and daughters of)

For the last 3 years I've been working at how important your choices you make during your education
are as you get older.
It didn't sink in ---selfies---Reality you tubes and Instagrams consumed every spare hour.

Last week as if by design all three GOT IT.

In a month NO SCHOOL.

No friends group hanging around during and after school.

NO Further education either as they didn't have high enough ATAR scores. Perhaps some TAFE is available.
But without question the careers they all want to pursue are so far out of their reach they cannot be considered.
They are in the Crowd pool--they dont stick out--unless they hang with the Crowd they thought they'd be in.

Education isn't EVERYTHING I failed Year 11 and am in the 3% that wont ever qualify for a pension.
But if you dont have an education you need street smarts and that comes from a lifetime of hard
knocks. These guys dont have what it takes to get knocked down and get up again over and over and over.

There is a solution but not having to face it is far better than going the hard road.

My kids by the way actually took my advice--their roads have still been tough BUT
they have choices! (unfortunately our Foster Kids did their best but are sadly
badly broken). In EVERY case they have an immovable US V THEM mentality.
They are owed buy everyone and I mean everyone.

Unfortunately the world is disproportionately BROKEN

This kind of advice is priceless and better then any education. Your kids are lucky you were there to drill these things in, if it doesn't work out at least you tried no regrets. I wish at least one of my parents took initiative like that. I had to learn and figure out everything out for myself. Being in my late 30s I could of easily had second hand advice and experience given to me and be in the same place as I am today (street smart and knowledge) 10 years ago.

Yes I finished uni and did the whole education path but plenty kids just scraped through year12, had good role models and advice from parents and are laughing now.