tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
- Joined
- 14 October 2004
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It is black and white - investors buy companies, traders buy stock prices.
If you buy a nice house, or investment property and it is revalued 6 months later for less than you bought it for would you sell it and buy a better performing house?
House.
WOW if only. If I could liquidate a house as quickly and as cheaply as I can liquidate a stock ---YOU BET I WOULD!
Realist said:
You need investors in the market and I need traders. So it is a good thing.
I beg to differ. This trade shows you exactly what technical trading is on about.Realist said:What exactly does it prove though?
How about you show us one of your losing trades - what would that prove - nothing.
Realist - what is your exit strategy? (or do you simply buy and hold?)
My exit strategy is to sell companies that become too overvalued. That is it!
There are quite a few.
2 that I like chart wise are.
CML,BHP
Realist said:I bought more BHP about 9 days ago!!
We agree! WooHoooOOOO!
Off now !
One of the most sensible things said in this thread.Snake Pliskin said:Tech or fundamental it doesn`t matter.
Some find a guru and read their books and then think it is the code for life itself.
Realist said:Julia, by my definition and that of many investors you just described yourself as a trader.
It is black and white - investors buy companies, traders buy stock prices.
If you buy a nice house, or investment property and it is revalued 6 months later for less than you bought it for would you sell it and buy a better performing house?
I am going to dispute that statement, thus it is not "indisputable"Realist said:The true beauty of buy and hold is there are no, or virtually none, ongoing expenses whatsoever. That is the one true indisputable advantage of investing over trading.
That makes it at $29
Hmm The techie $25.6
Who has better value?
Staybaker said:I am going to dispute that statement, thus it is not "indisputable"
The lack of expenses associated with buy-and-hold investing is only an advantage over trading if it produces superior results.
Suppose investor "A" generates a long-term average annual return of 15% (i.e. greater than the general market return due to superior stock selection). This return is achieved after expenses, which are minimal.
Meanwhile, suppose trader "B" can generate a long-term average annual return of 25% before expenses, but expenses account for 5%, leaving him with a 20% return. He would still be doing better than "A" even after expenses are taken into account.
Now, it is clear from your many posts, Mr Realist, that you are tacitly assuming that the trader cannot outperform the investor - if you are correct, then clearly the trader is irrational if he continues to trade rather than invest. Traders, however, clearly believe they can outperform the buy-and-hold investor.
The real question, then, is whether traders can outperform investors over the long term. The "advantages" of investing that you continue to mention (low expenses, low tax, less time commitment, etc.) are really irrelevent without knowing the degree to which one group can outperform the other.
Furthermore, even if we can make a general statement about whether trading or investing gives a better result, it wouldn't necessarily translate to any individual's case. Maybe, in the aggregate, investors do outperform traders over the long term. (I'm willing to accept that that may be true.) But that doesn't mean that every investor outperforms every trader. (For example, it may be true that Americans, in general, are more overweight than Asians. But that doesn't mean that every American is heavier than every Asian. And you certainly couldn't conclude that every American should therefore be on a diet, while no Asian needs to watch their weight.) So even if investing outperforms trading in general (which is debatable), a talented trader would still be rational to stick to trading if he is sufficiently good at it. It really comes down to each individual finding out what works best for them, given their skills and experience and personality.
I know of traders who have made over 50% per annum consistently over the last four years (some nearer 100%), after expenses. You'd certainly be hard-pressed trying to convince them that they shouldn't be trading, because of the high expenses involved!
Cheers, Staybaker.
but then market assessments indicate it has achieved its maximum likely capital gain in the foreseeable future, and I can see another property in an area which is beginning to show good appreciation, then, yes, I will sell my initial investment property and buy where I can expect further appreciation.
It's nothing more than maximising opportunities.
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