Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis?

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

wayneL said:

LOL such an inappropriate illustration.

Click to expand...

Fair enough.

What was I thinking...

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Realist said:

Where did I say no skill required or a three toed sloth can trade succesfully?

Actually you didn`t say that, but don`t twist it to look as though it was a manipulation of your post.

All I said was someone could learn fairly quickly and do it adequately.

Where?

That is not putting it down whatsoever. I'd suggest to trade proficiently and truly successfully is quite a skill. Infact it would require alot more skill than "investing".

Proselityzed so quickly.

All I was saying is like anything to learn the basics aint tough. To master it is.

Fair point.

Click to expand...

But here it is in case you forgot what you wrote:

You guys need to be alot smarter, faster, more alert and wiser than me. I just set and forget mostly. Any dummy can do it - no question. Patience and self control is all it requires, no skill at all really.

Click to expand...

So the mentioning of a sloth is apt.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Realist said:

What you do isn't anything anyone else can't learn fairly quickly and do adequately, it is not rocket science.

Click to expand...

Here.....

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Realist said:

Here.....

Click to expand...

Thanks.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Realist said:

Why would a trader want to invest?

Click to expand...

For the same reason anyone puts money into super etc. No one wants to work forever. A successful trader will usually be sitting on a lot of money anyway, so they might want to diversify into investments that produce passive income without the need to be trading all the time. It depends on goals really -- if you trade for the love of it or to be rich.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Realist said:

How does it make me money?

Well everyone following a trend leaves the door open for others to go against the trend and get bargains.

If everyone is buying red shirts cause that is the trend, then market forces will dictate black shirts will be on sale, I'd buy an Armani black shirt at a discount to your red shirt! You wouldn't - you'd pay too much for the red shirt and wear it till it went out of fashion. Fair enough too, most people would, but when black shirts come back into fashion, years later - I've already got one, and I paid bugger all for it. You'd rush off and buy a black shirt at a premium. My costs are lower. Your clothes bill would be higher than mine.

Click to expand...

Too funny Realist artyman:

You just love the clothes analogies.

Market forces will dictate black shirts will be on sale...Ha, ha, ha.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

swingstar said:

For the same reason anyone puts money into super etc. No one wants to work forever. A successful trader will usually be sitting on a lot of money anyway, so they might want to diversify into investments that produce passive income without the need to be trading all the time. It depends on goals really -- if you trade for the love of it or to be rich.

Click to expand...

So successful traders invest cause they don't want to work forever?

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Snake Pliskin said:

Too funny Realist artyman:

You just love the clothes analogies.

Market forces will dictate black shirts will be on sale...Ha, ha, ha.

Click to expand...

Also green shirts will be cheap, but green does not suit my skin colour.

And pink shirts - well I don't wear pink so I don't care

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Realist said:

So successful traders invest cause they don't want to work forever?

Click to expand...

Trading can take time, and it makes sense for anyone to be diversified.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

swingstar said:

For the same reason anyone puts money into super etc. No one wants to work forever. A successful trader will usually be sitting on a lot of money anyway, so they might want to diversify into investments that produce passive income without the need to be trading all the time. It depends on goals really -- if you trade for the love of it or to be rich.

Click to expand...

Active trading is a business for the serious.
Active investing is a business for the serious.
Passive income from property investments and business investments etc, allowing one to earn more than they are required to spend is the goal you are referring to Swingstar.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Snake Pliskin said:

Where would ASF be without Realist? Thanks for the entertainment.

Click to expand...

I think we’ve finally got to the truth about Realist (who is clearly not very experienced or knowledgeable, but certainly fills a lot of space up on this site – but he’s kind of amusing, like an inexpensive circus act, isn’t he?).

Originally Posted by Realist
I open to any suggestions on trading books or investing books - I am willing to learn. I am yet to see anything better than Graham's ideas though - maybe I will, I hope I will, that would be a life changing moment for sure.

Click to expand...

Judging by the way he hangs off each day’s price action, I’d say he actually has the heart of a trader crying to get out. He gives the appearance of being a clown squabbling to be the centre of attention, but the substance of what he says belies a lonely seeker (they say comedians are the most lonely people in the world).

I suspect he would like to be a seeker of knowledge of how to trade the markets, but is in denial. I have seen this symptom before – some people attack what they really want to be (or are), and sometimes try to hide behind the mask of a clown and feign humour.

His comments though have such limited intellectual rigour that it surprises me how many people have taken him seriously since he is obviously way outclassed by the heavyweights on this thread.

Here’s my one and only comment of advice for people of his ilk – try asking questions and researching the ideas that are presented on this site. Do the hard yards like everyone else has. The sooner they do this, the sooner they will evolve in a direction closer to their hearts desire.


Now, I think it's time he sat in the "naughty corner"!


Regards



Magdoran

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Snake Pliskin said:

Active trading is a business for the serious.
Active investing is a business for the serious.
Passive income from property investments and business investments etc, allowing one to earn more than they are required to spend is the goal you are referring to Swingstar.

Click to expand...

What do you mean, more than you're required to spend? Undeserving?

And when it becomes passive it becomes undeserving?

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Magdoran said:

Judging by the way he hangs off each day’s price action, I’d say he actually has the heart of a trader crying to get out.

Click to expand...

Good guess.

As I said I just post here for fun, and I watch the days prices for fun, I'm changing jobs soon so got spare time a plenty. I probably wont buy or sell any shares over the next 12 months. Boredom kicks in so I post here.

Your insults are pretty pathetic, either get straight to the point or don't bother - you only make yourself look weak.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Is there such a thing as active investing??

Graham's definition of enterprising investing is one who spends more time and effort than most on trying to find the best bargains. Not one who invests more enterprisingly or riskily than others.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

swingstar said:

What do you mean, more than you're required to spend? Undeserving?

And when it becomes passive it becomes undeserving?

Click to expand...

Income that covers life`s expenses. Investments pay for themselves and provide income. That`s all. Technically one is out of the rat race when they get to this point; no work.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Realist said:

Good guess.

As I said I just post here for fun, and I watch the days prices for fun, I'm changing jobs soon so got spare time a plenty. I probably wont buy or sell any shares over the next 12 months. Boredom kicks in so I post here.

Your insults are pretty pathetic, either get straight to the point or don't bother - you only make yourself look weak.

Click to expand...

So if you only post for fun, and insult, maybe we should collectively put you on ignore.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

yogi-in-oz said:

Hi Magdoran,

Plainly, the high was called at 5386 ... there was no mention
of the date, because the market was clearly ahead of a
point, where price and time would square ..... once that key
resistance was hit, it would fall until time caught up with
the price.

With regard to the next high, as 5386 was already
considered as the extreme high from 2003 lows, any
subsequent highs would be naturally be considered as
lower, otherwise it would have been stated that
we were shooting for NEW highs.

------

You guys really expose your attitude as traders,
when you come out with comments like this:

'While I would love to research your works to evaluate them,
frankly the high price tags are a disincentive."

Any trader who thinks that US $654.30 is expensive, should
not be trading, as really that figure should be the profit from
just ONE (very) average trade.

Or you could just spend $10,000 + on a blackbox system,
like gryphon or hometrader, etc ...

-----

"Why don’t you as an act of good faith outline some of your
methods, and give some clues as to what the “secrets” are in
“Tunnel Thru the Air”? - Now that would be interesting."

..... and why don't you do the very considerable research and
write the books, then we'll ask you the same question ...

Do you REALLY think that anbody, who has done the
work will GIVE it to you on a platter ..... ???

Again, Gann quoted the Bible, saying that "pearls should
not be cast before swine" and what better way to sort out
the real keen traders from the freeloaders, than put a SMALL
price on it ..... ???

-----

FWIW ..... straight out of TTTTA, our forecast XJO low is on
07 November 2006 at 4040 ... it actually squares out at 4028,
but there will likely be an ambush, around 4040.

So, where's your time and price forecast for XJO low ... ???

..... and it will be interesting to hear from the EW crowd,
if they can, too.

happy days

yogi

Click to expand...

Hello Yogi,


Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.

Yogi, I was not asking you for a free lunch, nor would I expect you to ask me for one. I was merely asking you for a taste of how you trade to compare notes. I did say a clue, not your entire methodology that has taken you years to develop, I would not expect you to give your IP away for nothing.

If what you claim is true I’d be glad to buy your book(s) if it augmented my existing Gann knowledge in ways that I could not work out for myself. This would be of great value. But Yogi, I’ve seen so many Gann offerings around that promised much, and delivered little. What I would like is enough information to determine that what you have is of any value to me (and anybody else for that matter).

I prefer not to contribute to someone’s income if the service they render is substandard. Without you explaining a bit more, how can I evaluate that I’ll get value for money? Look, I headed up business development/sale/marketing roles and managed companies for a range of organisations over 20+ years, and I’d have to say that your approach along with people like money tree’s to marketing and sales is amateurish to say the least. Here is a perfect opportunity to ingratiate yourself with a range of potential clients, and you go all coy on us – why is that?

So, I don’t think it is too much to ask you directly to give a thumb nail sketch of your methods and compare styles – you may have something of interest, you may not. I object to outlaying cash to people who don’t deliver, so effectively I’m raising buying signals in the way of objections… Just look at some of the “baby Gann” circuit seminar people who charge $25,000 US to do their course, and it’s all moving average based “shadows on the wall” stuff with a couple of Gann fans thrown in, and an adolescent view of the “Square of 9” added for good measure. Maybe you get a useless stochastic as a bonus (instantly makes me walk away).

You know I have read Gann’s original works and charts, and researched a whole host of so called Gann masters, most of whom know less than most of the Gann practitioners I know. None of us charges a fortune, sure we don’t give it all away, but we do give newer traders the nuts and bolts… that is our way.

I’m happy to outline the essential skill sets I have, and approaches, openly. You never know, by briefly outlining the building blocks you may actually do yourself a favour and stimulate a lot of interest rather than turn people off with the notion Gann methods are either some sort of esoteric underground cult, or run by rip off merchants (unfortunately this is the image many people have currently - you and I know while there is some truth to this perspective, that in fact there are some very powerful aspects to Gann approaches).

Now come on Yogi, you know that I have spent considerable time studying markets, and in particular an approach to Gann. I do this daily day in day out like you, and of course have come up with quite different approaches.

I have certainly gone through TTTA in detail, and I don’t see the concepts you refer to. I actually think areas like the master egg course, and the commodity courses and working charts and papers (particularly on time cycles) are the core of valuable approaches to Gann.

I have studied the astrological approach, and really don’t see much to recommend it above using time and price squares (144, 90, 180, 360, 52, 104 etc) – and square of the range, square of the high, and square of the low, perhaps zero angles and true trend lines… Sure the Saturn cycle I think picks up valuable vibrations, but this is more incidental and is really just an alternative timing mechanism.

I have essentially invited you to open up a little to have an interesting dialogue – let’s set aside everyone trying to prove or disprove anything, and just discuss and compare notes, surely this would be much more constructive?

What do you say Yogi, are you game? Come out to play, please…


Warm Regards


Magdoran

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Snake Pliskin said:

So if you only post for fun, and insult, maybe we should collectively put you on ignore.

Click to expand...

Now that's the most sensible thing I've heard all day!


Mag

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Snake Pliskin said:

Income that covers life`s expenses. Investments pay for themselves and provide income. That`s all. Technically one is out of the rat race when they get to this point; no work.

Click to expand...

Time for travel, study and philanthropy is precisely my goal.

Re: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis

Snake Pliskin said:

So if you only post for fun, and insult, maybe we should collectively put you on ignore.

Click to expand...

If it makes you feel better Snake, do it..