Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Interesting to note that in WC's trading halt announcement today they wouldn't even commit themselves to publishing an investor update by Friday.

Also interesting that the Qld Supreme Court had ordered the OCV creditors meeting to be held by today & this did not happen.

 

[BootsnAll]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Here's the latest from Wellington.

http://www.nsxa.com.au/ftp/news/021721057.PDF

Cheers

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

So 97% means further write downs? I.e. we only got back 97% of the written down value? Does that account for the 1c drop in 'value' to 44c.

I love it how the 1st quote on page 2 puts the word 'value' in inverted commas. All the BS marketing material and reports til now certainly haven't had that term in %@$*ing inverted commas. Would have painted a completely different picture if it did.

Looks like a lot of write downs have been crystallized. Depressing reading.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I'm no financial genius, but I thought the news would be worse than I read into it. The distribution failure after the promises made is very, very poor. Two weeks ago I was told that there would definitely be a payment of sorts by 24 December. WC's credibility as a result is at a low ebb. At least the management fee "bait" will keep them working hard. I remain sceptical in the extreme. Hopefully some clever contributor to the forum will crunch the numbers.

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

"rot dropper".........that's funny!!!! (and probably true!!)

Have noticed the absence of a few. I suppose it's less conspicuous (spell check please) than sending private messages via a public forum.
Anyway, it's very bad to have a market halt and then no announcement when it has been advised and awaited. WC must realise what they are doing to people and to themselves. It's a hole that is getting dug deeper and deeper.

We are still out here Burnt - maybe a bit shell shocked by the (until now) lack of communication.. I do believe that Wellington would have had a lot less flack it they had been a bit more open on what was happening.

One small point I notice in the publication today which contradicts some speculation. Wellington will not pay themselves fees (which we knew) or accrue fees (which the speculation was about) until they have paid us 3 cents!

 

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

We are still out here Burnt - maybe a bit shell shocked by the (until now) lack of communication.. I do believe that Wellington would have had a lot less flack it they had been a bit more open on what was happening.

One small point I notice in the publication today which contradicts some speculation. Wellington will not pay themselves fees (which we knew) or accrue fees (which the speculation was about) until they have paid us 3 cents!

I agree John, it is the one bit of good news that management fees are not accruing while we suffer - justified I'd say.
However, I am still not happy about the basis on which these fees will be calculated - 44c or 45c while the current average market value is approx. 15c

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I find it puzzling that a very damaging headline like WELLINGTON'S WATERLOO (SMH and AGE) can be apparently ignored by WC public relations. Very odd.

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JH made big election promises to win the vote and now the truth can be laid bare for all to see.

WC estimated in the EM less than 4 months ago that the yearly ongoing costs of the fund would be 1.32M and now WC tell us they have spent 10.95M in only 6 months! Projected over a year that's a 1900% cost blowout.

I bet that WC are working around the clock for the benefit of unitholders, billing the PIF at inflated charge out rates for their time, just to keep the wheels on their porta-loo.

Everyone needs to press the NSX for disclosure of details relating to this massive cost blowout by WC. Transperancy of costs to include expenses that WC are charging directly to the PIF along with how the 3.75M that OCV gave WC for the PIF has been spent.

-----
"Here is a comment card. Please mail it in when I am done."

 

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Selciper, WC seems quite happy to ignore or overlook many things.
I've only started going thru their update and immediately several things stand out as being sloppy and show not that much attention is paid to detail and / or the amount of value they are providing in the information they supply.

These points may seem trivial, but if WC put the same amount of effort into providing quality information as they do into presenting excuses and PR speak, we'd all be better off.

1) On page 3 the total of Actual Asset Realisations does not add up to $115.577mil,

2) On page 4 the Liability figures do not add up, therefore the Net Asset figures are not correct.

3) When comparing the figures in the Asset Realisations Table to the figures presented on the 24th Oct., it shows that $17.3mil was realised during the period 24/10/08 to 10/12/08. Only $3.6mil has been paid off the debt. Wouldn't it make more sense to stall creditors that are not charging interest than to keep a loan going at 20% interest.

4) The Operating Costs for the last 7.5 months as shown on page 1 are nearly $11mil. This total cost over 7.5 months is nearly 10 times the amount WC "estimated" for the year as presented in their Explanatory Memorandum.

5) On page 10 comments are made about Octaviar Limited. The second creditors meeting is due to be held on 17th December not the 19th. WC are still trying to make investors believe that they are going to recover the $50mil support facility and the $147.5mil claim. The administrators of Octaviar issued a creditors report yesterday that gives a realistic picture of the situation, yet WC doesn't bother to mention any of the facts given in this report.

These are my initial comments.

 

[stmt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good evening

Have been following the thread for some time and finally thought I should put my two cents worth in.

Wellington Capital got written a cheque for over $3.7 million by Octaviar when they took on the fund so not getting their fee would not be that stressful.

On top of this it is misleading when they say they are not drawing their fee.

The fund is paying all of their costs which would include staff, rent etc. Have a read of the constitition and they have a extensive array of things they can recover and are taking out in cash. Funny how their wording in the report uses the word "including" when talking about expenses and dont talk about the costs they are taking out.

So the management fee would be close to pure profit and they will get that at some stage and it will back dated using the 45 cents per unit value. Dont feel to sorry for our Jenny.

The other issue I find frustrating and I like others I believe have complained to NSX is that the tables only show what they achieved in a sale versus their own estimated realisable value.

I think I can get 10 bucks for it and then hey I got ten bucks for it. To bad we paid $30 for it but we wont tell them that !

For full disclosure we need to see what loss has occurred on each sale so we can more openly track the fund position.

The table without the original value is very misleading.

I guess though that NSX doesnt want to upset their biggest client by forcing them to provide meaniful disclosure.

 

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Stmt,

Nice to see you posting your comments. You are quite right about WC not disclosing the costs they are indirectly charging the fund.
Their managment fees will 100% tax free profit for them. The constitution not only provides for all costs to be reimbursed but it also states that all WC's taxes should be paid from the Fund.
Also you are 100% correct about WC not providing full disclosure when reporting asset realisations. Complaints and requests have been made to WC and NSX regarding this. The book value, even if written down, should be shown to compare realisations so that losses can be clearly seen.

 

[Joe Blow]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

We have discovered that stmt is another incarnation of former ASF member Iceman and this user name has also been suspended.

We have made it very clear from the outset that each individual is entitled to one user name only and those caught using more than one ASF account will be permanently suspended and be named in this thread.

Registering more than one user name is deceptive behaviour and if you do it you will be caught.

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Article in Courier Mail
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24787711-3122,00.html
By Anthony Marx
December 11, 2008 11:00pm
FAILED finance and tourism group Octaviar may have traded while insolvent and made up to $30 million in unfair preference payments, according to a creditors' report released yesterday.Administrators John Greig and Nicholas Harwood of accounting firm Deloitte are recommending that creditors owed more than $1 billion vote for a deed of company arrangement at a meeting to be held in Brisbane next Wednesday.

Under that scenario, those owed money would claw back at most 4c in the dollar.....
[continued - see link for rest of article]

 

[deano1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

have a look at how many of those properties are now under wellingtons control as mortgagee in possession - the market tells no lies - forget the wishful thinking 44c valuation - your units are worth 11c and probably going to go south before they go north - Wellington is a distressed seller the market knows it and its now a game of brinkmanship - wellington need money to keep the fund running and recovering their costs - they have shareholders screaming for the dividend they have been promised and they have potential buyers of those assets fully aware of the predicament they are in - WC cannot deliver what they promised - never have been able to and never will - the excuses will keep coming thick and fast and they will continue to milk the liquidity out of the fund thru recoving costs.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Breaker 1,

Could you tell us your thoughts about the present situation? It's thanks to you that this forum exists.

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Octaviar - Report to Creditors from Deloitte's available here:
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,cid%3D238832,00.html
and here: http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,cid%3D238831,00.html

Lots of information.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The 5 Deloitte reports weigh in at a collective 335 pages. Anyone know how many of them apply to PIF? Apart from the OCV Ltd one of course.

I'm wondering if the $3.7M paid to keep PIF going was seen as a preferential payment. Or the direct payment to WC - $750K wasn't it.

RE the costs of $10.95M since 2 May. A chunk of that $11M would be interest on the $147.5M OCV laundered through PIF from RBOS. How much interest? We're not told. 20% on $20M for 3 months would be at least $1M. The outstanding RBOS debt would have incurred penalty rates of I'm guessing 12%. 12% of $100M for 4 months would be at least $4M. So where did the other $5M go. And is that on top of the $4M+ OCV Ltd threw PIF and WC's way?

Seems the rout is continuing.

The secretive behaviour continues.

And ASA's Stuart Wilson wonders why unit holders aren't buying units. I haven't seen anything to show he is putting direct pressure on the NSX for greater disclosure from WC. (All these press reports are doing $hit for us. Still no action from ASIC.)

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

have a look at how many of those properties are now under wellingtons control as mortgagee in possession - the market tells no lies - forget the wishful thinking 44c valuation - your units are worth 11c and probably going to go south before they go north - Wellington is a distressed seller the market knows it and its now a game of brinkmanship - wellington need money to keep the fund running and recovering their costs - they have shareholders screaming for the dividend they have been promised and they have potential buyers of those assets fully aware of the predicament they are in - WC cannot deliver what they promised - never have been able to and never will - the excuses will keep coming thick and fast and they will continue to milk the liquidity out of the fund thru recoving costs.

Absolutely.

And I expect more big write downs. Status of 2 of the Mortgages is 'managed by liquidator' (Lane Cove $9,479,628 & Chatswood $4,608,231 - that's 1.87c per share or nearly 15% of the 12.5c the NSX market has valued our shares at) I read this as PIF having sub-prime securitisation over these properties. Why else would PIF hand the asset over to a liquidator and not take possesion. More junk in our portfolio?

What about the $41M Creswick mortgages? Anyone know if this is a 1st mortgage over 100% of the asset?

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Breaker 1,

Could you tell us your thoughts about the present situation? It's thanks to you that this forum exists.

G'day Selciper,

Personally, although financially painful, I would have to agree with the WC strategy of paying off debt first, as going into debt further, to make distributions, has to be foolish in the current financial environment. Even if WC can pay the $5.95M by 19 December, I doubt it could raise the further $20M needed to pay the 3c by 24 December. Wellington says, "the timing of the [3c] payment is uncertain".

Looking at some of the figures in the update a very rough estimate is that WC is collecting approx. $16M per month and at that rate, after debt is hopefully paid by 19 December and all going well, we MAY see a 3c distribution paid by late January or early February 2009, either in one lump or in part payments.

We have to put this whole mess into perspective, otherwise we are fools to ourselves, we are one of about 40-50 funds that have been frozen (one report I heard on the radio even mentioned 89 funds frozen if you can believe it). I have been reading news reports on the net and there is talk that the USA might even slide from recession into a full blown depression. There is also talk that the recession will hit Australia hard come mid to end of next year when the long term mining/mineral contracts have to be renewed with China, Japan and India. It is being speculated that they will be bargaining for an 80% drop from current payments per tonne. If that happens our economy will be stuffed, because we don't manufacture anymore. I guess it will hit WA hardest.

See this article on the Storm Financial Group - which might be our biggest upcoming crash so far: http://business.theage.com.au/business/storm-turns-into-typhoon-20081212-6x2y.html

We're now just one of many - even though that doesn't take the pain away.

I am surprised at the 19 mortgages we have in PIF possession - trusting that WC manages them wisely and that they contribute to the PIF in the future.

 

[doctorj]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

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