Trump 2.0

Smurf1976 said:

That chart looks awfully like what I'd expect to see in a service economy.

The very nature of basic services is they create little value, are highly competitive and rely upon trickle down economics from those with money.

I remember people warning of this outcome decades ago. At the time I wasn't sure, too young to get my mind around it really, but in hindsight they were spot on. Find anywhere that's wealthy and its either based on finance or otherwise bringing money from outside or it's based on some form of primary or secondary industry, it's not based on services.

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Keating locked the two together so workers received benefits from productivity gains, Howard dismantled it.

Cannot remember the exact numbers but Keating was comparing Australian productivity / wage gains with the US, Australian wages were up 9% US 0%.

IFocus said:

Keating locked the two together so workers received benefits from productivity gains, Howard dismantled it.

Cannot remember the exact numbers but Keating was comparing Australian productivity / wage gains with the US, Australian wages were up 9% US 0%.

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Just so you can fact check yourself:

Check out this story about a recent corrupt South African President. How he gained and kept power. How he and his cronies looted the economy and the effect this had on the country.

Illuminating. Certainly on point as we watch Trump take office and milk it for all he can get. As well of course as the bullionaire buddy class.

South Africa Had a Trump. They Handled Him Better.​

The rise and fall of Jacob Zuma has lessons for the United States.​

Holly Berkley Fletcher
Jan 31, 2025




South African President Jacob Zuma on September 20, 2016 at the UN headquarters in New York, New York. (Photo by Peter Foley - Pool/Getty Images)

ONCE UPON A TIME, THERE WAS a very bad president who caused much harm to his country’s democracy. Even before he became president, he was credibly accused of theft, fraud, and sexual assault, but people thought he was entertaining and supported him anyway. As president, he used the government to enrich himself and his cronies. He elevated corrupt incompetents who drove institutions into the ground. His once-proud political party—cowed by his fanatical, tribal following—tolerated him for too long. He attacked his own party, the free press, government officials, the judiciary, and anyone who tried to keep him accountable, eroding public trust in democracy itself.

No, I’m not talking about Donald Trump, but rather his wily South African analog, Jacob Zuma, whose tenure as president from 2009 to 2018 presented an existential threat to the continent’s most solid democracy. The two men’s uncanny similarities made for some uncomfortable moments when I briefed Trump officials on Zuma during their overlapping terms.

There are some personal differences, of course. Zuma, with his second-grade education, is by far the more intelligent and accomplished. He was born into poverty and suffered for his country, serving time in Robben Island prison with Nelson Mandela for his role in the anti-apartheid struggle.

Has it improved, or has someone similar replaced him? A quick google search shows Cyril Ramaphosa took over, when Zuma was thrown out in 2018.
Amazing what 2 minutes of research does.

From your Guardian: May 2024


Who will save South Africa from itself? Not the ruling African National Congress (ANC), whose 30 unbroken years of under-achievement have brought the country to its present sorry pass. Not “reformist” president Cyril Ramaphosa, widely considered a disappointment. And not Russia or China, either, to which Pretoria’s flailing regime, increasingly at odds with the west, looks for succour.

Three decades after Nelson Mandela’s historic poll victory formally vanquished apartheid, and less than three weeks before another watershed election, it’s all going wrong for the Rainbow Nation. Africa’s most developed country is now its most unequal, the World Bank says. Crime is rampant, corruption endemic, growth is tanking. More than 60% live in poverty. Unemployment among black people is 40%.


April 2024

Zuma, who joined the ANC as a teenager, was jailed on Robben Island for a decade under the apartheid regime. He went on to head the ANC’s intelligence wing in exile, and after the end of apartheid, quickly rose through the party’s ranks.

He led the ANC for years and was a two-time South African president. Now, though, he is going up against his former party under the banner of the uMkhonto weSizwe (MK) party in the country’s most closely contested election since the first democratic vote 30 years ago.

Zuma’s return to South Africa’s political centre stage, as a challenger to incumbent President Cyril Ramaphosa, is not surprising, say analysts. Since 2005, Zuma has been hit with a barrage of court trials and political scandals that might have sunk many politicians. But he has bounced back each time, his “grassroots” approach helping him keep a loyal follower base intact.

May 2024

Cyril Ramaphosa ascended to the presidency of South Africa several years ago carrying the excitement and optimism of the country’s rising Black professionals, who saw themselves in him: a measured businessman with intellectual gravitas. He seemed an antidote to the previous administration, which had blasted Black professionals as elitists complicit in the continued white domination of the economy.
But as voters head to the polls on Wednesday for the most consequential election in South Africa since the end of apartheid 30 years ago, Black professionals represent one of the grave threats to the precarious grip on power held by Mr. Ramaphosa and his party, the African National Congress, or A.N.C.
Polls predict that the party will receive below 50 percent of the national vote for the first time since the country’s first democratic election in 1994. And Black professionals could play a significant role in the A.N.C.’s demise.
After defecting from the A.N.C. during the scandal-plagued tenure of Mr. Ramaphosa’s predecessor, Jacob Zuma, many professionals returned to the party in the 2019 election. They believed that Mr. Ramaphosa could clean up corruption and turn around the sluggish economy, according to interviews with political analysts and Black professionals.

The return of these voters to the A.N.C. in the last election helped the party retain a comfortable majority, political analysts say.

Now, though, some Black professionals say they have grown disillusioned with Mr. Ramaphosa, believing that he has not acted decisively enough to reinvigorate the economy and eliminate A.N.C. corruption. Staggering unemployment, poverty, crime and a lack of basic services have left many South Africans fed up with the government.

basilio said:

Check out this story about a recent corrupt South African President. How he gained and kept power. How he and his cronies looted the economy and the effect this had on the country.

Illuminating. Certainly on point as we watch Trump take office and milk it for all he can get. As well of course as the bullionaire buddy class.

South Africa Had a Trump. They Handled Him Better.​

The rise and fall of Jacob Zuma has lessons for the United States.​

Holly Berkley Fletcher
Jan 31, 2025



View attachment 192334
South African President Jacob Zuma on September 20, 2016 at the UN headquarters in New York, New York. (Photo by Peter Foley - Pool/Getty Images)

ONCE UPON A TIME, THERE WAS a very bad president who caused much harm to his country’s democracy. Even before he became president, he was credibly accused of theft, fraud, and sexual assault, but people thought he was entertaining and supported him anyway. As president, he used the government to enrich himself and his cronies. He elevated corrupt incompetents who drove institutions into the ground. His once-proud political party—cowed by his fanatical, tribal following—tolerated him for too long. He attacked his own party, the free press, government officials, the judiciary, and anyone who tried to keep him accountable, eroding public trust in democracy itself.

No, I’m not talking about Donald Trump, but rather his wily South African analog, Jacob Zuma, whose tenure as president from 2009 to 2018 presented an existential threat to the continent’s most solid democracy. The two men’s uncanny similarities made for some uncomfortable moments when I briefed Trump officials on Zuma during their overlapping terms.

There are some personal differences, of course. Zuma, with his second-grade education, is by far the more intelligent and accomplished. He was born into poverty and suffered for his country, serving time in Robben Island prison with Nelson Mandela for his role in the anti-apartheid struggle.

South Africa Had a Trump. They Handled Him Better.

The rise and fall of Jacob Zuma has lessons for the United States.

www.thebulwark.com

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Nice read but not really very analogous to Trump 2.0.
Most of what he recommends can't be done.

1.Trump owns the High Court and has sacked most of the government lawyers. They are not independent.

2. Trump has a team of billionaires and much better advisors than his first term who enable him to use his power better but come with their own restraints on him. Bezos, Musk, etc all own plenty of social and legacy media so have influence.

3. Trump has made more money than he hoped for and the meme coins added more. I think he is more interested in his legacy this time. He wants his face on Mount Rushmore.

4. He is too old to chase skirt. Not going to be an issue going forward.

Knobby22 said:

Nice read but not really very analogous to Trump 2.0.
Most of what he recommends can't be done.

1.Trump owns the High Court and has sacked most of the government lawyers. They are not independent.

2. Trump has a team of billionaires and much better advisors than his first term who enable him to use his power better but come with their own restraints on him. Bezos, Musk, etc all own plenty of social and legacy media so have influence.

3. Trump has made more money than he hoped for and the meme coins added more. I think he is more interested in his legacy this time. He wants his face on Mount Rushmore.

4. He is too old to chase skirt. Not going to be an issue going forward.

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He still hasn't learnt to keep his mouth shut, it's a very unpleasant trait IMO, might work well with yanks but very unattractive to Australians IMO.
The way he is going on about this air disaster isn't good press, he needs to stick to sorting out the Ukraine issue and leave air crash analysis to investigators.

sptrawler said:

He still hasn't learnt to keep his mouth shut, it's a very unpleasant trait IMO, might work well with yanks but very unattractive to Australians IMO.
The way he is going on about this air disaster isn't good press, he needs to stick to sorting out the Ukraine issue and leave air crash analysis to investigators.

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He likes to be heard. He loves being the centre of attention.

Knobby22 said:

He likes to be heard. He loves being the centre of attention.

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Yes a very unattractive personality, he certainly doesn't suffer from lack of ego.

Honda will build an electric vehicle in the United States and sell it for less than US$30,000 in response to the US government's import tariffs.

The news was reported by Japanese financial outlet Nikkei which reported Honda’s plan to manufacture a small electric vehicle in Ohio.

Building the vehicle in the US would make it exempt from the government’s legislation imposing tariffs on imported vehicles and allow it to be sold at a price equal to combustion engined vehicles.

sptrawler said:

MSN

www.msn.com

Honda will build an electric vehicle in the United States and sell it for less than US$30,000 in response to the US government's import tariffs.

The news was reported by Japanese financial outlet Nikkei which reported Honda’s plan to manufacture a small electric vehicle in Ohio.

Building the vehicle in the US would make it exempt from the government’s legislation imposing tariffs on imported vehicles and allow it to be sold at a price equal to combustion engined vehicles.

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They originally announced that in 2022. It will be finished in 2026. Smart to give glory to Trump.
They will obviously probably lose the government subsidies. But should be protected like Tesla.

( I am the guy who should call himself Cynic).

Win Win.

Paul Keatings feelings on Trump, apparently he feels the Democrats were more of a threat to World peace. :

“Trump’s presidency could be central to him engineering avoidance of a third world war which the Democrats, in their manic commitment to primacy, were otherwise sliding towards – using Ukraine from 2014 as a US surrogate to contain Russia and their mealy-mouthed claim that China represented a military threat to the United States when in fact, China intends to attack no other state – certainly not the US. China’s objection to foreign military assets in its near waters being no different to US intolerance of foreign military assets in the western hemisphere. I think Trump understands this. His vice president, J.D. Vance, certainly does.”- Paul Keating

sptrawler said:

Paul Keatings feelings on Trump, apparently he feels the Democrats were more of a threat to World peace. :

“Trump’s presidency could be central to him engineering avoidance of a third world war which the Democrats, in their manic commitment to primacy, were otherwise sliding towards – using Ukraine from 2014 as a US surrogate to contain Russia and their mealy-mouthed claim that China represented a military threat to the United States when in fact, China intends to attack no other state – certainly not the US. China’s objection to foreign military assets in its near waters being no different to US intolerance of foreign military assets in the western hemisphere. I think Trump understands this. His vice president, J.D. Vance, certainly does.”- Paul Keating

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Keating always condemned the Democrats as sham that rarely represented the middle of lower incomes.

IFocus said:

Keating always condemned the Democrats as sham that rarely represented the middle of lower incomes.

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Interesting I would have thought he would be anti Trump and his mob.

sptrawler said:

Interesting I would have thought he would be anti Trump and his mob.

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People don't realist Keating was always a realist given the circumstances that included wielding power and its limitations having said that Keating would also have plenty of criticism's of Trump.

IFocus said:

People don't realist Keating was always a realist given the circumstances that included wielding power and its limitations having said that Keating would also have plenty of criticism's of Trump.

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He certainly has aligned himself with China, so I doubt he is fond of Trump at the moment and as is the want of Australian ex P.M's he doesn't shy from speaking his mind.