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Exactly, only hydro can provide mostly(drought excepted) 24/7 "green" power at a reasonable price, I would even say "green" 24/7.Another example of the electrical sytem issues coming to a head, the Fortesque hydrogen plant being proposed for the old fertilizer plant at Gibson Island, has ground to a halt due to cost of power and reliability of supply from the solar farm.
Heavy power using industries need certainty of supply and the way we are not following any sensible critical path toward renewables, isn't giving companies any confidence.
A well thought out plan showing a balanced well engineered way forward, is becomming more and more apparent IMO. Otherwise the Govt's open cheque book approach is bound to be rorted, wasted and ill directed IMO.
From the articleFortescue seeks government help to reduce power prices for stalled 500MW green hydrogen project in Australia
Australian H2 developer has already delayed final investment decision three times on landmark Gibson Island projectwww.hydrogeninsight.com
A follow-up question asked whether the price problem was related to bulk power price — for which it had already secured a 337.5MW solar power purchase agreement with developer Genex — or the dispatchable power it might need to access when the sun isn’t shining.
“Honestly, it’s both,” Hutchinson replied. “We want to make sure that to get the right economics that we get the power price down to a level where we produce the hydrogen and we don’t want to be switching the plant on and off as much as possible, so we’re really looking at getting the power price for both down, yes.”
renewable power prices needed to be less than US$30/MWh to be competitive on the global marketplace.
Average wholesale electricity prices in Queensland in Q4 2023 were A$79 (US$52.25) per MWh, according to the
Australian Energy Regulator.
Hutchinson also told the analyst call that its next green hydrogen projects to reach FID will be the “larger” ones in Norway and Brazil.
In particular, Fortescue is “fast-tracking” one project in Brazil and another in Norway, he added.
“It’s cheap power we’re looking for and where you have consistency, for example, for hydro[power], where’s you’re taking it straight from hydro resources, you know, that’s what we’re doing in Norway and Brazil. That’s very, very efficient.”
Its Norwegian project is the 300MW Holmaneset project near Svelgen, western Norway, which would produce more than 225,000 tonnes of green ammonia
So we will not become a giant green power exporter.....Exactly, only hydro can provide mostly(drought excepted) 24/7 "green" power at a reasonable price, I would even say "green" 24/7.
As discussed previously, once you have to have battery or pump up to complement solar or wind, you become just too dear(pump up), and if using current generation batteries, not even green as overall CO2 per kwh is higher than gas turbine...
Unless you forget the CO2 to get the windmill and panels produced and installed ..CO2 I do not care much as it is good for the planet but overall pollution of the whole cycle, we should...
I think that is probably starting to dawn on even the strongest supporters, it just becomes such a huge amount of renewable generation and storage that is required, which is what was said at the beginning of this thread.So we will not become a giant green power exporter.....
Certainly the most spectacular example of a quality Government funded, engineer driven approach to creating a proper energy market.So overall yes private ownership can work, so can government ownership, there's firm proof in both cases. Noting there that the historic model of government ownership put engineers in charge not politicians, a point Sir John Monash famously gave an ultimatum over and got what he wanted - he recognised the need to keep politics at arms length from a state-owned utility otherwise it'd be messed up. Over a century later and I think we can say he was spot on correct about that, politicians ought be kept at arms length from technical things.
Didn't Daniel Andrews just re start the SEC in Victoria to turn it around?Certainly the most spectacular example of a quality Government funded, engineer driven approach to creating a proper energy market.
Worth remembering however this was not a "given". The private electricity companies of the day were furious with the decision becasue it clearly impacted on their profits. For a number of years John Monash had deal with private companies doing whatever they could to undermine the SEC.
I see ammonia as a way to move H2 around without most of the issues of H2 storage.We do not discuss ammonia burning much here but for people interested and the imho folly behind these schemes:
'Sad to see' | Co-firing ammonia with coal would gobble up at least four million tonnes of clean hydrogen: BNEF
Total announced Asian co-firing projects could require the equivalent of 40-220GW of electrolyser capacity, data from BNEF indicateswww.hydrogeninsight.com
Yes I thought I had read that, how is that going?Didn't Daniel Andrews just re start the SEC in Victoria to turn it around?
I certainly hope it works, and is an insipration for other States.Yes I thought I had read that, how is that going?
Power To The People – SEC Up And Running
The Andrews Labor Government is driving down energy bills and emissions by reviving the State Electricity Commission (SEC) – delivering government-owned renewable energy to drive down power bills and put electricity back in the hands of Victorians. Minister for the State Electricity Commission...www.premier.vic.gov.au
Didn't Daniel Andrews just re start the SEC in Victoria to turn it around?
"I hope, we trust"I certainly hope it works, and is an inspiration for other States.
Is there any way China can lose?What China is up to in the energy game.
Some interesting facts on W.A gas and how the companies are playing the Govt.
Can't think of where to post the article but don't want to lose it.
WA’s gas shortage is a joke – at the public’s expense
Can you imagine Qatar or Saudi Arabia panicking about a gas or oil shortage? It would be a joke. And in the west, companies are laughing all the way to the bank.www.watoday.com.au
Or the companies are being shonky.Amazing.
A while ago we were talking about WA's gas reservation policy and how there was no shortage of gas in the West.
Someone has dropped the ball apparently.
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