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Expanding on this a bit, put yourself in the shoes of management of any of the major electricity companies. AGL, Origin, Energy Australia, etc.There's more than a few who could broadly be placed in the category of saying that they can see the point in hydro as a non-fossil means of deep firming but at the same time, they really don't think society's ready to go there.
It is just becoming diabolical IMO.Expanding on this a bit, put yourself in the shoes of management of any of the major electricity companies. AGL, Origin, Energy Australia, etc.
They could build hydro for deep firming and in doing so commit themselves to a long lead time, engineering heavy major construction project that runs a very high chance of ending up with a protest.
Or they could quietly install some gas turbines and not say anything about it.
The former might be "greener" if climate change is taken to be the most serious threat environmentally but somewhat ironically it comes with far greater risk of being a target politically. Given it's not that profitable anyway, it just doesn't make sense to risk tarnishing the retail brand when there's a simple alternative - gas, diesel or just don't invest in anything since reliability isn't actually your problem.
Hence the gun shy approach to hydro.
Nuclear would face the exact same problem on steroids. Long lead time, engineering heavy, not that profitable and comes with huge risk of becoming a political target. None of the companies are likely to want anything to do with it.
The overall environment hasn't driven all investors away but it's scared more than a few hence not enough is being done.
Overall I think there's a pretty decent list of things in society that are on a very unsustainable path.It is just becoming diabolical IMO.
Absolutely, nursing, teaching and trades have gone down the gurgler and rather than do a reality check and fix it.Overall I think there's a pretty decent list of things in society that are on a very unsustainable path.
Economy, debt, housing, education and so on. Energy's just another one really.
This is why recessions are necessary to clear out the dead wood and give everyone a reminder of the need to remain focused.It might sound dramatic, but we are becoming a society driven by populism, rather than being a society of exceptional people who punched above our weight.
Governments have to build hydro if its going to be done, but they don't have they will to do it either.Expanding on this a bit, put yourself in the shoes of management of any of the major electricity companies. AGL, Origin, Energy Australia, etc.
They could build hydro for deep firming and in doing so commit themselves to a long lead time, engineering heavy major construction project that runs a very high chance of ending up with a protest.
Or they could quietly install some gas turbines and not say anything about it.
The former might be "greener" if climate change is taken to be the most serious threat environmentally but somewhat ironically it comes with far greater risk of being a target politically. Given it's not that profitable anyway, it just doesn't make sense to risk tarnishing the retail brand when there's a simple alternative - gas, diesel or just don't invest in anything since reliability isn't actually your problem.
Hence the gun shy approach to hydro.
Nuclear would face the exact same problem on steroids. Long lead time, engineering heavy, not that profitable and comes with huge risk of becoming a political target. None of the companies are likely to want anything to do with it.
The overall environment hasn't driven all investors away but it's scared more than a few hence not enough is being done.
Genex have done in in Queensland at Kidston but that's a straightforward project in an engineering sense and given the site is a former mine, it's pretty hard for anyone to argue about environmental values.Governments have to build hydro if its going to be done, but they don't have they will to do it either.
There's no magic number.@Smurf1976 what sort of drop / height do you need for hyro to work ?
There's no magic number.
Water volume x head (drop) = energy.
1000 litres of water dropped 500m yields the same energy as 500 litres dropped 1000m or 5000 litres dropped 100m.
Highest single stage drop in the world is 1883m at Bieudron power station, Switzerland.
Highest in Australia is 835m at Poatina, Tasmania.
At the other end of the scale Cluny (Tasmania) is only 16m and 4.88m of that is due to the variable water level behind the dam, so it's down around 11m head at minimum water level.
That said....
Economics and practicality of construction favours moderate heads. That requires no special materials and typically ends up a fairly low cost installation relative to its electrical output.
Higher heads mean difficult construction and costly materials. Eg Poatina was pushing the limits and was notable at the international level when built (construction 1957 - 64) and in more recent times Bieudron the same during its construction completed 1998. Noting there that Bieudron did have a significant incident, rupture of the penstock, but has since returned to service.
In the opposite direction the problem with low heads is purely economic. In practice it tends to end up with a lot of civil works relative to power output. Eg Cluny was extremely marginal at the time, being built essentially as a "now or never" project following higher head stations built nearby and before the associated construction workforce and facilities were removed from the area. Economically it's piggy backed on the rest basically, it wouldn't have worked financially as a standalone project.
Much the same internationally. Plenty of low head stations but they're mostly either in the same "now or never" category following construction of much higher head facilities nearby, or they're simply an add-on to a dam built for some other purpose eg water supply and with the civil works cost attributed to that other purpose.
The big difficulty is economic along with community acceptance (environment etc). In a purely technical sense it's just water volume x head = output and pretty much anything can be built as long as the geology's OK.
In the Australian context nobody's sensibly suggesting we try and run the whole country using hydro, that's out of the question. Rather it's a question of whether or not more hydro should be built for medium storage or deep firming rather than using gas for that purpose. To the extent there's any serious debate about what ought be done, that's what it comes down to.
Some will advocate gas on the grounds of low capital cost, quick to deploy, "off the shelf" equipment, low physical footprint, etc.
Others will advocate hydro pointing to the finite nature of gas reserves and that gas has other important uses, CO2 and climate change, financial risk of gas prices going forward, etc.
I'll argue for proper science on a case by cases basis, since the issues surrounding hydro projects vary hugely from site to site, but in practice the politics favours gas as the path of least resistance. Hence most commenting will assume gas unless they're specifically advocating otherwise.
How much does the magic fluid cost ? Water is basically free , and of course it takes twice as much energy to pump it up than for water.Great summary. I think it's worth throwing in another factor - the weight of the fluid being pumped up and down the hill.
All the engineering assumptions use water as the medium.
What if the medium was a fluid 2.5 times heavier than water ? Suddenly you can achieve the same output with a lower head and/or lower volume. The engineering requirements become significantly smaller.
This is not a thought experiment. A UK company has developed such a process and is commercialising it.
RheEnergise High-Density Hydro - How it works
If you want to know how RheEnergise pumped energy storage workswww.rheenergise.com RheEnergise High-Density Hydro - News
RheEnergise Pumped Energy Storage: Lowering the levelised cost of energy storage. Increasing the availability of sites. Exceptionally fast reaction times. Long Duration. Long life. Highly flexible. High-Density Hydro®www.rheenergise.com
How much does the magic fluid cost ? Water is basically free , and of course it takes twice as much energy to pump it up than for water.
Great video, technology moving on, now all we need is the politicians to follow suit.An excellent video on the regulatory problems of power grids in the US and how they are being overcome.
Big lessons for Australia.
115774 GENERAL NOTICE 25/03/2024 04:33:09 AM
Severe Space Weather Watch Notification 25/03/2024
AEMO ELECTRICITY MARKET NOTICE
Severe Space Weather Watch Notification 25/03/2024
The Australian Bureau of Meteorology's Space Weather Forecasting Centre has issued the following notification.
Severe space weather watch: A recent space weather event is anticipated to impact the Earth within the next 48 hours.
The effects are expected to be significant.
Increased awareness of critical infrastructure is advised.
Please monitor the SWS website for further updates at https://www.sws.bom.gov.au
If required; actions will be taken as per AEMO's system operating procedure SO_OP3715 Power System Security Guidelines.
Manager NEM Real Time Operations
In the short term this could be "interesting" to say the least.
AEMO has issued the following notice:
If the lights go out, that'll probably be why.
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