Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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Meanwhile Venice Energy, Viva Energy, Vopak and Squadron (one of Andrew Forest's companies) are all planning separate LNG import terminals.Also @Smurf1976 in addition to the extra pipeline APA is building to connect the Beetaloo to the east coast grid, they are already expanding the capacity of the grid by 25% and also adding more storage capacity in Meloboure.
The energy transition is far too slow, AEMO warns
Investment in new, clean electricity supply is not happening fast enough to replace closing coal power stations and the grid build-out lags what is needed for the energy transition, the head of the Australian Energy Market Operator will warn on Tuesday.
Daniel Westerman will say that investments are also urgently needed in “firming” technologies – such as pumped hydro, batteries and gas – to fill in the gaps when renewable energy is not available, with storage needing to expand by a factor of 30 by 2050.
I doubt the LNG terminals will all go ahead, but if they do that’s even move gas that will be available.Meanwhile Venice Energy, Viva Energy, Vopak and Squadron (one of Andrew Forest's companies) are all planning separate LNG import terminals.
Venice's is at Outer Harbour (Adelaide).
Viva and Vopak both at Geelong.
Squadron at Port Kembla.
Thus far the Port Kembla terminal has had physical works done, so money spent, and the Outer Harbour terminal looks the next most likely to proceed. Related to those two projects are enabling the Eastern Gas Pipeline (Vic - NSW) to flow south and enabling the Port Campbell (Vic) - Adelaide pipeline to flow east. At present they flow from Victoria to NSW / SA only.
Reason is simply that nobody is planning to bring anywhere near enough gas from NT + Qld south thus far. APA may well upgrade the pipeline from NT through to Mt Isa and then through to Ballera and I sure won't be raising any objections to that but it doesn't overcome that there's still a very major constraint on the ability to move gas between Qld and the south-eastern states.
As for the WORM (Western Outer Ring Main - western Melbourne that is), that does highlight my point does it not?
11.5 years to go from starting the paperwork to getting a 51km gas pipe through farmland that's easy commuting distance from a major city. That pace of progress is what has many worried - about 93% of the total timeline being the various forms of paperwork and bureaucracy, the other 7% being the actual physical construction on site.
Once built the primary benefits are increased ability to move gas eastwards during the summer season, that is to fill Iona storage from the Victorian (gas) Transmission System using gas from outside the south-west region.
During the winter season, primary benefit and main reason for building it is it overcomes the present restriction on flows from the west into Melbourne. This enables greater peak day utilisation of the Iona storage, plus also benefits the future conversion of the Port Campbell - Adelaide pipeline to enable bi-directional flow, that is to flow from Adelaide to Pt Campbell, thus enabling LNG imported into Adelaide to ultimately find its way into Victoria albeit in limited volume. It also has benefits to the Victorian LNG import terminals if they're built.
None of that's saying any of the projects are crap, just that there's a reason why there's concern about the pace of all this. 10.5 years of engineering evaluations, environmental impact assessments, cultural heritage assessments, regulatory assessments and so on then less than 1 year to do the actual construction.
All up things are being built but not quickly enough is the basic problem. Lots of time spent in offices leaving not enough time spent on site when any competent engineer, or indeed anyone with construction experience, knows full well that things can and do go wrong. If there's to be a time blowout then it ought be on site not in an office.
Hence even the normally guarded and conservative AEMO is now publicly ringing the alarm bells loud and clear:
The energy transition is far too slow, AEMO warns
Investment in generation to replace accelerating coal plant closures is falling behind what is required, the head of the Australian Energy Market Operator has warned.www.afr.com
Note it says nothing about emissions and there's a reason for that. The concern's about the lights going out, he's not lamenting the state of the planet just the state of the electricity grid.
So yes find gas in the NT and upgrade the pipelines through to Ballera to get it into the Qld gas system. Also build the Port Kembla and another, likely Adelaide, LNG terminal. Also build Snowy 2.0 and another cable across Bass Strait and also build the various "big battery" projects.
That still leaves plenty more needing doing though, we're nowhere close to being finished. That's the point that's raising concern - the % of time used is far greater than the % of required building achieved thus far so a real speeding up is required. That's what AEMO and many others are on about - we trying to outrun a bull but thus far the bull's running faster than we are.
It's all rather like the Titan, that little sub which imploded on its way to the Titanic.isn't it funny how everything the loonies were arguing about 5-6 years ago, has now been turned on its head and all the arguments the technical people were saying are proving correct.
*SUCH* clarity. But you know I meant that.I'm continually amazed and delighted by your willingness and patience to explain the technical issues of this subject with suck clarity Smutf. Poster of the year I reckon.
THANK YOU.
We are probably some way from these being readily accepted., at least ten years given the testing period specified.China’s nuclear safety watchdog has issued an operational permit for the nation’s first thorium reactor, marking a significant milestone in the country’s pursuit of advanced nuclear technologies.
The reactor, a two-megawatt liquid-fuelled thorium molten salt reactor (MSR), is located in the Gobi Desert city of Wuwei in Gansu province and is operated by the Shanghai Institute of Applied Physics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
The permit, issued by the National Nuclear Safety Administration on June 7, allows the Shanghai Institute to operate the reactor for 10 years and it will start by testing operations.
The permit specifies that the Shanghai Institute is responsible for the safety of the reactor and must comply with all relevant laws, regulations and technical standards.
Thorium MSRs are a type of advanced nuclear technology that use liquid fuels, typically molten salts, as both a fuel and a coolant. They offer several potential advantages over traditional uranium reactors, including increased safety, reduced waste and improved fuel efficiency.
Thorium is also a more abundant resource compared with uranium, and China has significant thorium reserves.
One of the pumped Hydro plants, Borumba, comes with a 14.2 billion price tag.
So what happens if the period of low VRE is longer than 24 hours?
I was wondering what it would cost to build the equivalent gas generator and came across this from The GuardianBatteries won't do the job so it looks like the only alternative is gas turbines.
I think you would need to build a lot of those to fill in the gap as well.
I have no idea how much that would cost.
There was probably a lot of criticism over Snowy Hydro when it was first built but it's done the job over many years.
The thing with pumped hydro is that it's in service far longer than other mechanisms so the cost is spread out over a long time and may well turn out the cheapest option in the end.
There are those experts again. Are these experts, economists, engineers, environmentalists or public servants?The Morrison government has confirmed it will spend up to $600m to build a new gas-fired power plant in New South Wales’ Hunter Valley despite experts warning the fossil fuel investment makes little commercial sense.
MickThe government announced on Tuesday night it was dedicating unallocated funding in last week’s budget to the publicly owned Snowy Hydro Ltd plan to build a 660 megawatt gas plant at Kurri Kurri.
It follows Scott Morrison warning last September that taxpayers would step in if the private sector did not commit to building at least 1,000MW to replace the Liddell coal-fired generator in 2023. EnergyAustralia announced last week it would build the 316MW Tallawarra B gas-hydrogen plant with $83m in state and federal support.
I highlighted this comapny a couple of years ago and I believe it is on the way to offering a quick, cost effective pumped hydro option to firm solar and wind power.
Elegant and on test data well proven. Well worth checking out the research and data on their site. The FAQ page covers many relevant questions.
HOW IT WORKS
How it works
At times of low energy demand, with associated low costs, the High-Density Fluid R-19 is pumped to the top storage tanks. The low-cost electricity is often provided by abundant renewable energy, such as wind and solar power.
As energy prices rise the HD Fluid R-19 is released and it passes through the turbines, regenerating electricity to supply power to the grid.
Because we use a high-tech fluid with a density 2.5x that of water RheEnergise projects can operate on low hills rather than high mountains.
Projects are 10MW to 50MW of power. This means that they can be connected onto existing grid infrastructure and can be co-located with other renewable energy projects.
The high-tech fluid also means that projects can be 2.5x smaller for the same power.
65% of pumped energy storage project costs are civil engineering construction costs, making projects 2.5x smaller offers huge savings opportunity.
System set up
Storage tanks (buried) are located at the top and bottom of a small hill.
The storage tanks are connected by underground pipes, called penstocks.
Next to the lower storage tanks there is a power-house containing the pumps and turbines.
View attachment 158885
RheEnergise High-Density Hydro - How it works
If you want to know how RheEnergise pumped energy storage workswww.rheenergise.com RheEnergise: Pumped Energy Storage
RheEnergise® Pumped Energy Storage: Lowering the levelized cost of energy storage. Increasing the availability of sites. Exceptionally fast reaction times. Long Duration. Long life. Highly flexible. High-Density Hydro®www.rheenergise.com
It isn't Rumpy. But it can be scaled up. Just a bigger tank and perhaps more head.50MW is not a great deal of power. What is the cost per MW I wonder ?
It will just cause the coal generators to shut down their plant sooner, plan B needs to be sorted out very quickly IMO.From The evil Murdoch Press
View attachment 158890
Funny how they AEMO never charges the VRE suppliers when they don't deliver.
Stupidity of the highest order.
No wonder the owners of the fossil fuel generators want to close them all down ASAP.
Dealing with AEMO charges can just be eliniated.
Mick
50MW is not a great deal of power.
In the context of commercial application, that is beyond lab or prototype scale where the only real question is the technology itself, it comes down to cost per unit.It isn't Rumpy. But it can be scaled up.
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