- Joined
- 29 January 2006
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You sound like Donald Trump.
The media has been saying renewables reduce electricity prices, which is the opposite of what you posted.
As for white noise, I think you might mean something else.
You sound like Donald Trump.I don't even live over East, but over here in the West, all we hear is the Federal Government is trying to force the price of electricity down and the media saying it can't be done.
So I guess time will tell, there is a lot of white noise surrounding the issue and most comes from the ABC. IMO
Sorry forgot, most of the white noise comes from the ABC and Redrob.Well who would have thought that, despite the Government, prices are likely to fall, which they have been saying is what they are aiming for.
I don't even live over East, but over here in the West, all we hear is the Federal Government is trying to force the price of electricity down and the media saying it can't be done.
So I guess time will tell, there is a lot of white noise surrounding the issue and most comes from the ABC. IMO
I am definitely the opposite of white noise.Sorry forgot, most of the white noise comes from the ABC and Redrob.
Interesting article on grid scale batteries, they are performing extremely well with frequency control.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/big-batteries-enjoy-record-revenues-but-pumped-hydro-struggles-61123/
in an area that delivers essential services success might just mean affordable and reliable services .
That's the problem if you start measuring success by profit alone, in an area that delivers essential services success might just mean affordable and reliable services rather than overall profits.
Where pumped hydro comes in is if you don't want the gas bit. Hence the rather epic battle between those who want gas and those who want pumped hydro or in other words the AGL Vs Australian Government / Snowy Hydro saga which comes down to far more than just an argument about the Liddell power station.
Gas won't last forever (about 60 years for Australia on current production).
Like I said early in the piece, I don't think there is any money in pumped hydro and very little in storage generally, the money is in generation.Gas won't last forever (about 60 years for Australia on current production). That might seem a long time but the companies will be looking for new markets all the time so the reserves will most likely decease at a higher rate. Therefore pumped hydro has to be the long term answer, as long as we have governments with some foresight and not just after a quick fix. (does anyone really believe that ?).
You say some pretty silly things.The big issue is going to be the environmental lobby, they will go nuts when the discussion turns to pumping sea water inland, to fill pumped storage reservoirs.In reality it is the only way you will be able to get sufficient water.
Nobody is thinking the issues through....
You just can't help yourself can you, make derogatory comments, I can see why you no longer write policy for the Labor Party you must have put your foot in it too often.You say some pretty silly things.
For example, the Ord River dam holds about 70 times Sydney harbour's volume before flooding over, while north Queensland's baby Burdekin dam holds four times Sydney harbour.
I guess if people would be silly enough to propose a pumped hydro system where there is no water then you might be in luck.
All known reserves can and do increase as years go by, more a matter of cost and ROI than availability.and in 60y, we will have at last realised that co2 is not responsible of any significant global warming and so other criterias will decide the pet solution:Gas won't last forever (about 60 years for Australia on current production)
Like I said early in the piece, I don't think there is any money in pumped hydro and very little in storage generally, the money is in generation.
That's why IMO the Government will have to get heavily involved in funding storage, which it is with Snowy 2.0 there really wont be any money in something that big at all IMO, but it will be required.
It is just one of those Nation building things that is going to be required, IMO it makes a lot more sense than the NBN, but that has been done to death.
The big issue is going to be the environmental lobby, they will go nuts when the discussion turns to pumping sea water inland, to fill pumped storage reservoirs.In reality it is the only way you will be able to get sufficient water.
Nobody is thinking the issues through, but I'm sure the Government is, you can bet on that.
I can't wait to read the two reports this year, the one on electric cars and the other on the transition to renewables roadmap.
I was more referring to large scale pumped storage, not so much battery storage as it is smaller, more dynamic and less capital cost especially when the land content and access is considered plus the civil works.from the point of view of owners of renewable generation there is money in storage.
there is a big difference in the price you can sell 1KWh of guaranteed supply vs 1KWh of random supply.
If a company owned 7 wind farms Their production will fluctuate, but they could be pretty sure the at any time 10% of their capacity would be working, at other times 50% and sometimes 100%
So they may only be able to contract 10% of their production at the higher rates of guaranteed supply, while selling 90% “run of plant” Eg random supply.
by adding in storage, into the mix the company can feel confident in contracting a much higher percentage of their production into the higher priced guaranteed supply market, so they might contract 50% at higher rates rather than 10%
I was more referring to large scale pumped storage, not so much battery storage as it is smaller, more dynamic and less capital cost especially when the land content and access is considered plus the civil works.
I would guess Snowy2.0 will end up costing around $4-5 billion, things that big normally end up costing twice what was first suggested, so the pay back time will probably be never. But as with the Snowy Hydro and Tasmania it will be available for a long,long time.Timing is also a factor in all that. AGL can commission their batteries in 2023 and financially write the whole thing off by the mid-2030's. In contrast it's no secret that Hydro Tas and Snowy Hydro both already have plans in regard to existing assets which extend beyond 2100. There's an order of magnitude difference in the timing there.
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