Trembling Hand
Can be found on the bid
- Joined
- 10 June 2007
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- 205
New to CFD's with IGMArkets and reasonably pleased with their platform, but their service is Generally Exceptional, esp compared to Commsec's robotic scripted operators I deal with.
Anyway If I may ask Trembling Hand.
Would it be fair to say using a standard stop loss during the day would suffice most if not all [Indexes (trading SPI)] but not necessarly Shares as they can gap up/down on news.
Wheres holding overnight one would very very wise, to use a (GSL)Guaranteed Stop Loss, on either Indexes or Shares.
Been reading you posts and apprec your contributions... in XAO analysys.
Cheers
Thanks
SevenFX
OK my a/c still down on last nights close but clawing my way back.
BTW I don't trade with stops and going by todays action it's obvious why.
As for loosing money I can say that I've never made so much in such a short time as with CFD trading. porkpie
yes that would be a good Idea but still the problem remains that I think most new traders use CFD positions that are way to large for there account equity. And if you have a few positions on at times like this they all go bad, result being a big draw down that's very hard to come back from.
A general rule is stop loss at no more than 2% of your total equity. If you followed that rule you should be fine. But how many do.
Hello caleb2003,I'll give an honest perspective of my account(s) as I think there are lots of lurkers who are too proud to admit these things and as far as I'm conerned making mistakes is good for learning properly (in a perverse way)
I have 2 cfd accounts one I trade share CFDs and the other Index.
The share acount has taken a pummeling mainly because I had Rio as a long but I closed almost every other position yesterday but kept Rio open (bit of a mistake again!), this acccount has lost around 20% value but is bordering on margin call territory so unless RIO picks up this afternoon then I'll close that out but still be in the game.
THe other account is where I've made the biggest booboo by letting an spi long trade become an investment from around 10 days ago (which I dont think will see its price near for months now) and the worst one was that I had a long on dax the other day and for some bizzare reason did not put a stop loss even though I had pledged to myself in the last week to only daytrade the markets due to the subprime issues, only to see it suddenly down thousands, I then made the classic mistake of hoping that the good old US would help it back up but of course that didnt happen, now this account is in dire straights and at risk of being kaput, even better as I saw it break down I had enough equity to put a short on the ftse which kept me balanced but because I put a stop loss on that and it was met then that didnt help at all!!
My options on that are a: put more money in and hope the market rallies soon and doesnt turn into the biggest crash since 87.
b: Close out the positions and lose all the equity completely.
As I write this I must point out that I have fully read and studied these situations prior to embarking trading but still managed to make the mistakes on more than one occasion.
Go on, all the experienced traders can now have a good gloat at what I think will be a very common theme, but at least from my point of view I now have some good old fashioned sense smacked into my head.
Hello caleb2003,
No, you will probably not hear gloating from the true professionals. Because anyone who achieves real success in the market usually has probably had their own rite of passage “baptism of fire” of their own. Me, I did some seriously risky things and learned the hard way too – there is nothing like a significant loss as a wake up call. The market is a ruthless teacher.
I salute your honesty and your ability to take responsibility for your actions. These are the hallmarks of a person who is capable of becoming a very effective player in the market. The fact you can be open and relatively objective about this is commendable, and actually a very positive attribute, more than you probably realise right now.
The question is, can you recover, and learn from your mistake, and come back to fight another day? The long term winners are those that can dust themselves off, pick them selves up and get back up again…
What have you learned? Can you objectively assess why this happened? Can you perceive how important risk and reward analysis is? Can you incorporate better methods for the future? Can you find ways to improve your discipline? Are you prepared to really research and learn about derivatives in depth now?
I would suggest picking up Mark Douglas’ “Trading in the Zone” and perhaps “The Disciplined Trader”, because you have probably suffered far worse damage to your trading psychology than to your bank account, than you realise. If this goes “untreated”, you may find that your future performance will suffer unless you confront your psychology and can be sure that you can regain a level of market objectivity.
Read the Douglas book cover to cover, even if it starts to seem repetitive. If this doesn’t help you through this, and it isn’t of benefit, then you will be an exception…
Also, since you were using leveraged instruments please read through the derivative area and consider the range of discussion on this subject – maybe this seems a bit like closing the gate after the horse has bolted, but if you are determined to continue, you really must devote time to improving your understanding of derivatives. To just trade CFDs without having really worked out the mechanics of a range of derivatives is in my view a serious omission, which Is not obvious until the market delivers a “body blow” when events like this unfold.
Believe me, I’ve been where you are, and I can tell you, this is the hardest game in town. It is all roses until a significant adverse event happens that you haven’t prepared for…
You have my sympathies, best of luck.
Regards
Magdoran
I feel a bit lonely that I'm the only one that will admit failings today when there must surely be 100s or thousands in the same boat but nobodys talking?!?
Come on guys,
what about the dangers of trading futures the dangers of options the dangers of trading shares, dangers of spread betting.
the dangers of just trading,
If you do not research and understand what your trading then you are the fool and you will learn the hard way. As I did when i first started on options.
1. its up to you the trader to know what your trading and how it works.
2. its up to you the trader to know what the market is doing and how it will affect you and your postions.
3. its up to you the trader to understand money managment and position sizing.
So if you were smashed today and the last two days you have to ask youself some questions as to why that happened.
there are dangers every where and in trading I have found out most of them are self inflicted!
Thanks for your comments, I'm not out of the game and realise that if I was to give up at this juncture then it would truly be a waste of time, I'm quite happy to learn the mistakes early on and would have been very annoyed if I had been successful for a year and then lost everything, as it stands I've lost a fairly small portion of my overall equity as I wasnt foolish enough to put to much money in the accounts.
I feel a bit lonely that I'm the only one that will admit failings today when there must surely be 100s or thousands in the same boat but nobodys talking?!?
As far as my own discipline goes I will read the books mentioned, currently reading Van tharp and completed the trading game of his which quite obviously points out the flaws I had. But that was the point I made, I am fairly well read on this matter but still managed to make the mistakes!
One major thing I've done is to not concentrate enough and allow family distractions (young kids!)to get in the way at trading time, its simply too important and should require my absolute concentration at the time of trading and that was a big failing.
The main thing I'm rueing is that I saw this correction coming and fully intended to short the market at the time, I would have done very well but perhaps would have just continued the same cycles and eventually come unstuck anyway.
Cheers for the comments, very helpful
Was that a bad thing though? You didn't know what was going to happen, you established a view of what might happen and reduced your risk accordingly.
Sounds good to me. (You can always look back and say if only I'd closed out this or if I'd sold short, but it's what you did do and what you learned from the experience that counts.)
what a harsh way to put it this way.
no matter how much you research and understand, once you start trading you`ll make more mistakes than you have fingers and toes.
I`m sure you have been there yourself and even now you probably make mistakes and I think it`s excellent of caring people like trembling hand to point out the dangers of leverage in cfd`s, so people can learn.
how else can they learn if trade_it doesnt say anything and leave it to others?
Thanks for your comments, I'm not out of the game and realise that if I was to give up at this juncture then it would truly be a waste of time, I'm quite happy to learn the mistakes early on and would have been very annoyed if I had been successful for a year and then lost everything, as it stands I've lost a fairly small portion of my overall equity as I wasnt foolish enough to put to much money in the accounts.
I feel a bit lonely that I'm the only one that will admit failings today when there must surely be 100s or thousands in the same boat but nobodys talking?!?
As far as my own discipline goes I will read the books mentioned, currently reading Van tharp and completed the trading game of his which quite obviously points out the flaws I had. But that was the point I made, I am fairly well read on this matter but still managed to make the mistakes!
One major thing I've done is to not concentrate enough and allow family distractions (young kids!)to get in the way at trading time, its simply too important and should require my absolute concentration at the time of trading and that was a big failing.
The main thing I'm rueing is that I saw this correction coming and fully intended to short the market at the time, I would have done very well but perhaps would have just continued the same cycles and eventually come unstuck anyway.
Cheers for the comments, very helpful
LOL,
what a laugh, hey lets get something straight, when i blew over 50% of my capital on CFD's, I did not blame anything, I said what the hell r u doing and I worked my ass off to understand why it went wrong and how to fix it.
So hate to say, its not harsh its reality. if you were over exposed and you got caught learn from it!
Like it or not this is not a game, its a damn business, make sure understand that business and are prepared to the best of your abilities when u start. in every business understand risk! DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Hey why dont you ask Trembeling Hand about the dangers of futures, how lovely it is to be caught in limit for a week. now thats a blast.
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