tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Suicide is evident in all age groups and is attached to a poor mental state.
I wholeheartedly second that - Thanks, Julia.Firstly, Julia, I would like to thank you for introducing the discussion and for your insight, balanced viewpoint and compassion.
If I live to old age I will certainly be making preparations for the final exit, which I will determine (I hope). There is an organisation called "Dying with Dignity". The website is well worth a visit, and I believe they hold meetings in all capital cities.
That article simply refers to the withdrawal of artificial life support. I can't see how that's 'euthanasia'. It is already a given throughout the world and happens all the time.During my news rounds the other day I noticed Germany has most recently introduced euthanasia but for terminally ill and not personal reasons...
I'm so sorry to hear that, Tech. Has Kath given any consideration to taking matters into her own hands before she is incapacitated?I have a wonderful friend Kath who is terminally ill with cancer.
The diagnosis is Paraplegia,highly likely quadraplegia---eventual death.
It is very slow growing and hasnt at this stage moved to other parts of her body.
Frankly I hope it does and quickly to the liver and all over!
Good luck for your surgery, Wysiwyg.That is sad to read Tech/A. I had minor surgery for BCC four months ago and will be seeing a specialist for a near eye operation next Monday at 9.15 am. What would my mental state be in this ladies circumstance? I don't know for sure, but I am a fighter.
Thanks, Ruby. As is obvious, I also feel very strongly about the subject.I have just come across this thread - have had a 'whizz through' read - and wish I had found it earlier because it is a subject about which I feel strongly.
Firstly, Julia, I would like to thank you for introducing the discussion and for your insight, balanced viewpoint and compassion. I am in complete agreement with you, and I have the greatest respect for Dr Nitschke and the work he is trying to do.
Pixel, I think I heard recently that WA is also putting up some voluntary euthanasia legislation. Do you know any detail about this?I wholeheartedly second that - Thanks, Julia.
WA has introduced a "Living Will", which also takes a step in the right direction. At least, the doctors are no longer obliged to prolong my agony if I don't wish to. Ever since an accident in the early '90s, when a particular operation was deemed necessary though risky, have I been carrying a document with me, instructing the medical staff to NOT force me to continue to vegetate in an undignified, passive state. While that was never enforceable, the new laws give it some more solid foundation.
Good to hear about the organ and body donation. Australia has one of the lowest rates of organ donation in the world.We have also registered as organ donors, but getting to an age where major organs are rapidly approaching their use-by date. That's where body donation can plug in: we have registered with the Medical Faculty of UWA, who are most welcome to teach med students the basics of their handiwork, using our dead bodies for which we no longer have the slightest use.
Those three items in combination, we hope, will provide a little less incentive for medical staff to persist with unwelcome, useless treatment, and increase our chances of getting the necessary signatures when it's time to switch the life support off.
Ruby, as you are probably aware Philip Nitschke's book "The Peaceful Pill Handbook" is banned in Australia, thanks to Ruddock and the Right to Life organisation. I recently purchased it from Amazon from only to find out it could be downloaded on the internet.
It is well worth reading. If you are interested go to;
http://books.google.com.au/books?id...&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
I can find more definitions but really it is definitive in bold print.That article simply refers to the withdrawal of artificial life support. I can't see how that's 'euthanasia'. It is already a given throughout the world and happens all the time.
Personal reasons such as sadness, depression, lonely, lost partner and want to go to, drug addiction.What do you mean when you say "personal reasons"?
No sweat. These cancers have manifested in the last few years and this is the second visible one. Being 3 mm from my eyeball requires some finesse to remove and hence the specialist.Good luck for your surgery, Wysiwyg.
Really Julia it is fine if anyone wants to roll over and accept whatever happens. Several billion people have come and gone on this planet and while our personal journeys are unique to each and everyone, how people handle life experiences is for the most part up to them.When I read comments like "but I am a fighter", I get very disturbed.
It implies that all it takes to cope with any sort of terminal and/or painful disease is a determined attitude. It's like the people who say when their treatment for e.g. cancer is successful that it was really all due to their having had a 'positive attitude'. It actually implies a choice on the part of the patient which is often absolutely wrong.
I can find more definitions but really it is definitive in bold print.
"According to the House of Lords Select Committee on Medical Ethics, the precise definition of euthanasia is "a deliberate intervention undertaken with the express intention of ending a life, to relieve intractable suffering"."
It can't be implied, construed, interpreted any other way, can it?
This is one of the most moving things I have ever read, thanks tech/a. How can any person, with even the remotest shred of human compassion and basic decency, deny such sufferers a dignified end. It beggars comprehension.The pain is un imaginable. Even fulltime morphine pumps dont come close to relief...This is cruel, inhumane and bloody heart breaking, not only for Kath but her husband/kids/close friends.
Wysiwyg how would your mental state be???
Withdrawal of artificial life support is not the same as "a deliberate intervention". It is the absence of intervention, which then allows nature to take its course. In my view there is a difference.
Agree 100%, Bushman;It disgusts me that people with no prospect for a peaceful death should be forced to kill themselves in secret or suffer an excruciating and futile death.
Exactly right, Ruby. Surely you can see the difference Wysiwyg?Withdrawal of artificial life support is not the same as "a deliberate intervention". It is the absence of intervention, which then allows nature to take its course. In my view there is a difference.
Bushman, I'm so sorry to hear about your family members. That is the sort of shocking event we should be able to prevent.I must say this thread has never registered with me before now but it is compelling and thought provoking reading.
From my own personal experience, I believe that the option for a peaceful and dignified death at one's choosing rather than a painful and pointless death should be a basic human right. Much is made of the fact that 'healthy' individuals could potentially opt out due to issues with anxiety and/or depression. Surely this is not an insurmountable challenge? In the case of cancer, the views of oncologists and/or psychologists could be taken into account to ensure the option is only available to those with temrinal conditions and in severe physical or psychological pain.
This is an aspect of suicide which is little discussed, but so very important.I wish they had had the legal euthanasia option open to them because then we could have seen them one more time to say good-bye and make our peace.
Bushman, you may like to become a member of Phillip Nitschke's "Exit".To be human is to be compassionate and have empathy for the suffering of others. It disgusts me that people with no prospect for a peaceful death should be forced to kill themselves in secret or suffer an excruciating and futile death.
Subtle difference, Julia:I see today Ms Gillard has declared she is an atheist.
I'm going to disagree, pixel, on this. If she has said she does not believe in God, then that renders her an atheist, i.e. she does not believe a God exists.Subtle difference, Julia:
Ms Gillard said she does not believe in God and won't pretend a faith she does not feel. Rather than A-theist = "god-less", I'd call that attitude A-gnostic = "no definite knowledge".
I'm going to disagree, pixel, on this. If she has said she does not believe in God, then that renders her an atheist, i.e. she does not believe a God exists.
She didn't say: "I don't know whether or not a God exists" which would have made her agnostic.
It would be interesting to have her define herself as one or the other perhaps.
Whichever opinion the PM may hold in this matter, I feel very strongly about segregation of State and Church matters. Consequently, the debate whether she is "a fit and proper person to serve this country as a Prime Minister", should be answered without the slightest regard of her religious beliefs or non-beliefs. You mentioned Kevin Andrews overruling a democratically created Law in the NT. That stinks to high heaven and is exactly the kind of bigotry that I detest as vehemently as any unilateral usurption of superiority.
Whichever opinion the PM may hold in this matter, I feel very strongly about segregation of State and Church matters. Consequently, the debate whether she is "a fit and proper person to serve this country as a Prime Minister", should be answered without the slightest regard of her religious beliefs or non-beliefs.
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