Social Engineering

SirRumpole said:

I can't recall any 'social engineering' when I was at school, .

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So the girls didn't get shuffled off to Home economics class, while the boys did metal work or wood work?

Value Collector said:

So the girls didn't get shuffled off to Home economics class, while the boys did metal work or wood work?

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I believe boys and girls could do either woodwork/metalwork or H.E., it so happened that boys usually chose the woodwork and girls chose the Home Economics.

SirRumpole said:

I believe boys and girls could do either woodwork/metalwork or H.E., it so happened that boys usually chose the woodwork and girls chose the Home Economics.

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When my Mum was in school Home economics was a mandatory thing for girls and only girls. So I guess yes, social engineering has always been around.

Value Collector said:

When my Mum was in school Home economics was a mandatory thing for girls and only girls. So I guess yes, social engineering has always been around.

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See, even back then boys missed out on all the good classes.

There is some trial and error going on with the females in male suited and historically male jobs. Dirty, hot, smelly, physically demanding work is something challenging for awhile but the novelty wears off and easier positions are sought. Few are "fair dinkum" and go on with it.

Wysiwyg said:

There is some trial and error going on with the females in male suited and historically male jobs. Dirty, hot, smelly, physically demanding work is something challenging for awhile but the novelty wears off and easier positions are sought. Few are "fair dinkum" and go on with it.

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It's more about proving a point about so called equality than any desire to do the work.

SirRumpole said:

It's more about proving a point about so called equality than any desire to do the work.

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From the top (and I would loike to know where the ideology comes from) the percentage of female to male has to move higher. If you want some facts on percentage I can dig up the e-mail quoting the numbers. It is not about the right person for the job so much theses days but diversity and inclusion. Suitability, aptitude, fair dinkum no longer a prerequisite. It's laughable.

SirRumpole said:

It's more about proving a point about so called equality than any desire to do the work.

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I don't agree, a lot of it is just about earning money, women aren't driving mining equipment in the pilbra to prove a point any more than a guy is, they want money.

Also, do you think that more women are becoming Doctors now rather than limiting themselves to being Nurces because they are simply trying to prove a point?

Every where I go now I see young women taking on roles that were never really open to them before, I love it.

For years society kept half of the talent on the sidelines, imagine what we can achieve when we use the whole team.

Value Collector said:

Also, do you think that more women are becoming Doctors now rather than limiting themselves to being Nurces because they are simply trying to prove a point?

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No argument there, but medicine is an intellectual pursuit not one that requires physical strength like lumberjacks or whatever so it's not a 'dirty job' as such. I've nothing against women doing whatever they want and are capable of doing, but as always there are a few who want to promote an 'equality' agenda and employers are taking them not necessarily on merit but because either they have jumped on the equality bandwagon or are afraid of repercussions from the feminist or migrant mafia if they don't play ball.

What do you think about women in combat positions in the Armed Forces ?

Value Collector said:

For years society kept half of the talent on the sidelines, imagine what we can achieve when we use the whole team.

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Unemployment doubling, house price doubling and salary/morgage slave doubling.More profit for childcares, Can not wait;
The ATO either
Discrimination based on sex in office work in mining companies (and others) to rebalance the figures irrespective of talent/skills, reduced BHP dividends, where do I stop? The sky is the limit but hey why should we spoil a good story.This is not a black and white story...can I still say that?

More thoughts about Social engineering. Prime consideration is creating a particular view of the world that conforms to certain expectations.
The latest blockbuster Dunkirk offers an example of social engineering which many people would not appreciate until it's pointed out.

Why the lack of Indian and African faces in Dunkirk matters
Sunny Singh
The blockbuster purports to be a historical portrayal, but in fact it’s a whitewash. And these decisions help corrode societal attitudes

• Sunny Singh is a British-based writer. Her latest novel is Hotel Arcadia


‘The French army deployed at Dunkirk included soldiers from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and other colonies, and in substantial numbers. But we don’t see them.’ Photograph: Bros/Kobal/REX/Shutterstock

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Tuesday 1 August 2017 17.00 AEST Last modified on Tuesday 1 August 2017 21.19 AEST

What a surprise that Nigel Farage has endorsed the new fantasy-disguised-as-historical war film, Dunkirk. Christopher Nolan’s movie is an inadvertently timely, thinly veiled Brexiteer fantasy in which plucky Britons heroically retreat from the dangerous shores of Europe. Most importantly, it pushes the narrative that it was Britain as it exists today – and not the one with a global empire – that stood alone against the “European peril”.

To do so, it erases the Royal Indian Army Services Corp companies, which were not only on the beach, but tasked with transporting supplies over terrain that was inaccessible for the British Expeditionary Force’s motorised transport companies. It also ignores the fact that by 1938, lascars – mostly from South Asia and East Africa – counted for one of four crewmen on British merchant vessels, and thus participated in large numbers in the evacuation.

But Nolan’s erasures are not limited to the British. The French army deployed at Dunkirk included soldiers from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and other colonies, and in substantial numbers. Some non-white faces are visible in one crowd scene, but that’s it. The film forgets the racialised pecking order that determined life and death for both British and French colonial troops at Dunkirk and after it.

This is important, firstly, because it is a matter of factual accuracy in what purports to be an historical portrayal – and also because it was the colonial troops who were crucial in averting absolute catastrophe for the allies. It is also important because, more than history books and school lessons, popular culture shapes and informs our imagination not only of the past, but of our present and future.

The stories that we share among ourselves give us the vision of our individual and collective identities. When those stories consistently – and in a big budget, well-researched production like Dunkirk, one must assume, purposefully – erase the presence of those who are still considered “other” and less-than-equal, these narratives also decide who is seen as “us” as opposed to “them”. Does this removal of those deemed “foreign” and “other” from narratives of the past express a discomfort with the same people in the present? More chillingly, does it also contain a wish to excise the same people from a utopian, national future?

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...n-african-dunkirk-history-whitewash-attitudes

SirRumpole said:

What do you think about women in combat positions in the Armed Forces ?

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Fine with it. If a chopper was coming to extract me, would I care about the gender of the pilot or the door gunner, of course not, when a sapper goes forward to clear a land mine or IED would I care about the gender, of course not, I really can't think of a role that couldn't be filled by women.


Female sniper unit.


This Female sniper nearly dies, laughs it off.

SirRumpole said:

I believe boys and girls could do either woodwork/metalwork or H.E., it so happened that boys usually chose the woodwork and girls chose the Home Economics.

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When I was at school cooking, sewing, metalwork and woodwork were all compulsory subjects regardless of gender.

There's no reason why boys can't thread needles or use a sewing machine and there's no reason why girls can't use a lathe or welder indeed there was no choice given.

Normal public high school in Tas. Is it not the same in other states?

qldfrog said:

Unemployment doubling,

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Since when?

Looks like historical lows to me.

Smurf1976 said:

When I was at school cooking, sewing, metalwork and woodwork were all compulsory subjects regardless of gender.

There's no reason why boys can't thread needles or use a sewing machine and there's no reason why girls can't use a lathe or welder indeed there was no choice given.

Normal public high school in Tas. Is it not the same in other states?

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What you say may be the go now, I was talking 50 years ago.

Smurf1976 said:

When I was at school cooking, sewing, metalwork and woodwork were all compulsory subjects regardless of gender.

There's no reason why boys can't thread needles or use a sewing machine and there's no reason why girls can't use a lathe or welder indeed there was no choice given.

Normal public high school in Tas. Is it not the same in other states?

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Yes in Qld. we swapped Home Ec. with the girls for Wood and Metal work for a short time. Our class learned how to use a recipe and baked an apple crumble pie. Thanks for reminding us how well organised and real-life-educational public schools were. Certainly prepared me for life after parental control but I would have preferred financial education as compulsory learning too.

Smurf1976 said:

Normal public high school in Tas. Is it not the same in other states?

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That was the Norm in the 90's when I went through High school, but the 50's were different.

However the claim was that "Social engineering" in the education system (and society), was a new development. I was just pointing out that gender based "Social engineering" has been the norm for along time, and is not a new thing.

it's not random chance that in prior generations, Females were nurses while doctors were mostly Male, Females were pressured to stay at home while husbands worked, it was "engineered that way.

Australia had 25 Male prime ministers before we had a female one, now I guess that could be random chance, but I doubt it, without the coin of the toss being rigged, its very hard to get 25 heads in a row.

Value Collector said:

I really can't think of a role that couldn't be filled by women.

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How about if you had a leg blown off by a mine and you only had one skinny female to carry you 20 km to the nearest aid station ?

SirRumpole said:

How about if you had a leg blown off by a mine and you only had one skinny female to carry you 20 km to the nearest aid station ?

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Change that to "One Skinny Male" and you are in the same place.

At the end of the day, all front line troops will be physically fit, and in that kind of Evacuation there are all sorts of jobs on the go, and I wouldn't care about the gender of

If you were in that situation would care if the person was female that was,

Applying combat first aid
On the radio calling in help
Returning fire and providing security to the people assisting you
Pilot or door gunner on the chopper thats coming to lift you out
part of the medic team on the chopper who will stabilise you in flight

Well, it seems that women aren't too keen on the combat roles.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-25/ban-lifted-but-few-women-apply-for-combat-roles/4650772

Which seems to indicate that the "women in combat" campaign was a feminist push for superficial "equality" rather than actual suitability for the role.