So is the COVID-19 drama over, or will this go on for some time?

basilio · 24 July 2020

Smurf1976 said:
Agreed but my thinking is summed up by a question: What is so different about this virus which has prompted the response it has received?

It's not the first virus to emerge in the past few years so what has prompted such a massive response to this one?

The only answer I can come up with is that someone, that is government, either knows something or at least thinks they know something which warrants the response received. Something to the effect that it doesn't simply kill a few people who were at the end of their lives anyway and which warrants spending $ trillions to avoid.

Why no such response with SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu and so on?

What prompted an immediate all out response to this versus basically no response to any other virus?

I won't claim to know the answer but I can only assume someone does and that's the reason.

That is sobering.
I suggest the reason for recognising COVID 19 as as an extremely dangerous new virus vs the previous ones would come from the Chinese experience through January/Febuary as they experienced the spread of the virus , the effects on people and the struggle to control it.

As far as we know there were sporadic infections around December 2019. People coming in sick and developing pneumonia that was untreatable with current drugs. I believe one Chinese doctor recognised the significance of this new disease and tried to alert the authorities.

This was effectively suppressed because, I suppose, it was seen as alarmist. Within a couple of weeks in early January hundreds/thousands more people became infected. Hospitals started to fill. It became impossible to deny the obvious.

At this stage the story/understanding was that it spread through contact with some infected animal products allegedly the wet Wuhan markets.

Then it started to become clear that there was people to people infections... Totally new ball game now. The doctors realised that the disease could spread through asymptomatic carriers. You didn't have to look or be sick to pass this on. Xhite . This is now really serious.

Meanwhile thousands of people are dying in hospital. It is spreading across China and has already been spread across the world through international travel in January possibly earlier. But that is for later.

As the Chinese watch the unfolding disaster across the country they take extreme isolation and control measures. (Back here we all watched and silently or openly wondered how they could be so incompetent and then so authoritarianly brutal..)

Back in the Western world there were at least two views. The doctors and epidemiologists realised this was the type of outbreak they had feared, warned about and prepared for for years. A new disease, easily transmitted human to human, untreatable, no vaccines, serious mortality. The sinister twist was the discovery that people could be infectious and asymptomatic. How the hell do you identify and isolate people who show no symptoms

On the political front no one wanted to take this problem seriously. The thought of closing downing whole regions to stop this virus was economic anathema. Italy went to the dogs. The UK didn't take it seriously. Trump just denied it was a problem. Frankly it took a long time for the reality of what was happening and which was predicted by the doctors to strike home And so it unfolded into the disaster we now see. And we still don't know what the longer term effects will be.

Sdajii · 24 July 2020

basilio said:
That is sobering.
I suggest the reason for recognising COVID 19 as as an extremely dangerous new virus vs the previous ones would come from the Chinese experience through January/Febuary as they experienced the spread of the virus , the effects on people and the struggle to control it.

As far as we know there were sporadic infections around December 2019. People coming in sick and developing pneumonia that was untreatable with current drugs. I believe one Chinese doctor recognised the significance of this new disease and tried to alert the authorities.

This was effectively suppressed because, I suppose, it was seen as alarmist. Within a couple of weeks in early January hundreds/thousands more people became infected. Hospitals started to fill. It became impossible to deny the obvious.

At this stage the story/understanding was that it spread through contact with some infected animal products allegedly the wet Wuhan markets.

Then it started to become clear that there was people to people infections... Totally new ball game now. The doctors realised that the disease could spread through asymptomatic carriers. You didn't have to look or be sick to pass this on. Xhite . This is now really serious.

Meanwhile thousands of people are dying in hospital. It is spreading across China and has already been spread across the world through international travel in January possibly earlier. But that is for later.

As the Chinese watch the unfolding disaster across the country they take extreme isolation and control measures. (Back here we all watched and silently or openly wondered how they could be so incompetent and then so authoritarianly brutal..)

Back in the Western world there were at least two views. The doctors and epidemiologists realised this was the type of outbreak they had feared, warned about and prepared for for years. A new disease, easily transmitted human to human, untreatable, no vaccines, serious mortality. The sinister twist was the discovery that people could be infectious and asymptomatic. How the hell do you identify and isolate people who show no symptoms

On the political front no one wanted to take this problem seriously. The thought of closing downing whole regions to stop this virus was economic anathema. Italy went to the dogs. The UK didn't take it seriously. Trump just denied it was a problem. Frankly it took a long time for the reality of what was happening and which was predicted by the doctors to strike home And so it unfolded into the disaster we now see. And we still don't know what the longer term effects will be.

It's amazing how much people believe the Chinese, despite them being blatant liars.

Sweden has been just about the only country doing what I suggested all along would be best. They now have a negligible number of deaths.

Trump didn't deny it was a problem, he was literally taking action to mitigate it very early on when the rest of the world accused him of freaking out and being silly. They said it was racist to call the disease a big problem, just an excuse to say China had done something wrong. He shut down international borders while the WHO told him it was unnecessary, etc.

Most people have such short memories and just believe the narratives they're lead to believe.

basilio · 24 July 2020

Back in the evidence based real world the threat to younger people of the COVID 19 virus is becoming clear.
Intensive care nurse's blunt warning over coronavirus risk to younger adults

A senior Melbourne intensive care nurse says hospitals are preparing for the prospect of deaths among younger Victorians as authorities battle to rein in the state's coronavirus cases.
Key points:

From the start of July, a quarter of COVID-19 infections have been in Victorians aged in their 20s
Four children are in hospital and 20 per cent of the state's coronavirus patients are under the age of 50
A senior ICU nurse manager says there is "no doubt" younger adults with coronavirus will die

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...re-nurse-warns-young-people-will-die/12486738

basilio · 24 July 2020

Sdajii said:
It's amazing how much people believe the Chinese, despite them being blatant liars.

And Donald Trump is the honest, intelligent stable genius who has led the US fight against this no problem flu virus to the point that only 140,000 people have died and the US is triumphantly marching, marching, marching to a Great New Destiny.

Sdajii · 24 July 2020

basilio said:
Back in the evidence based real world the threat to younger people of the COVID 19 virus is becoming clear.
Intensive care nurse's blunt warning over coronavirus risk to younger adults

A senior Melbourne intensive care nurse says hospitals are preparing for the prospect of deaths among younger Victorians as authorities battle to rein in the state's coronavirus cases.
Key points:

From the start of July, a quarter of COVID-19 infections have been in Victorians aged in their 20s

Four children are in hospital and 20 per cent of the state's coronavirus patients are under the age of 50

A senior ICU nurse manager says there is "no doubt" younger adults with coronavirus will die

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...re-nurse-warns-young-people-will-die/12486738

Silly scaremongering.

No statistically relevant numbers are given! Young people die of the common cold too. No, I'm not saying this is as mild as the common cold, but there is no attempt here to put anything into perspective (because doing so shows that it's not something worth fearing).

People in their 20s are being infected, sure, they can get infected, but proportionately, incredibly few have serious issues with it. Most literally don't even get symptoms.

Sure, at some stage a young person will die of it. We literally have hundreds of people die in Australia every day from all manner of causes. That's not reason to freak out about every single one of them!

Sdajii · 24 July 2020

basilio said:
And Donald Trump is the honest, intelligent stable genius who has led the US fight against this no problem flu virus to the point that only 140,000 people have died and the US is triumphantly marching, marching, marching to a Great New Destiny.

No, he is not, I didn't say he was. I said China is blatantly dishonest so we shouldn't take them at their word.

If you can understand that Donald Trump should not be taken as an oracle of truth, then you should be capable of fathoming that China sure as heck shouldn't be!

basilio · 24 July 2020

Sdajii said:
Trump didn't deny it was a problem, he was literally taking action to mitigate it very early on when the rest of the world accused him of freaking out and being silly. They said it was racist to call the disease a big problem, just an excuse to say China had done something wrong. He shut down international borders while the WHO told him it was unnecessary, etc.

The New World Reality according to Sdajii.

Sdajii · 24 July 2020

basilio said:
The New World Reality according to Sdajii.

Why do you say this? He literally shut down the borders because of the virus, knowing it would harm the economy, which is his #1 priority, he did this because of the virus, and when he did it the WHO said it was unnecessary. This is all fact. It literally only happened a few months ago. Yet you facetiously imply that I am making this up and am misrepresenting reality, while you believe this actual reality never existed! Despite Trump literally going so far that the WHO said he was going overboard and China said he was being crazy for taking such extreme measures, you believe he denied it was a problem?

You have no business accusing anyone else of forming a 'new world reality'.

Junior · 24 July 2020

Sdajii said:
Silly scaremongering.

No statistically relevant numbers are given! Young people die of the common cold too. No, I'm not saying this is as mild as the common cold, but there is no attempt here to put anything into perspective (because doing so shows that it's not something worth fearing).

People in their 20s are being infected, sure, they can get infected, but proportionately, incredibly few have serious issues with it. Most literally don't even get symptoms.

I would say these are specific and highly relevant numbers. Around 5-10% of people testing positive with COVID in Victoria right now, end up in hospital because their symptoms are so severe. A significant percentage of those end up in ICU.

Your reference to Sweden is odd....they have had one of the highest fatality rates of anywhere on the planet, AND their economy has suffered, AND they have been shut out of neighbouring countries. Hardly a situation to aspire to.

Congratulating Trump on his 'response' is simply absurd at this point. His own supporters are leaving him in droves right now.

satanoperca · 24 July 2020

Everyone still arguing about what is right and wrong.

I find it difficult to gauge the validity of some of the posts as I do not have enough information about the poster and they're biased to the situation?

I feel some posters on here give a biased view of this virus due to 3 reasons :
1. They have never faced death. Well, few have under the age of 50.
2. Those over 50+ are having to accept death is part of life and wish to live forever, this virus challenges that.
3. They live in a bubble, believing everything should be fair in life and humans can solve every issue natures throws at us (really humans are just the bacteria of the earth, consuming everything until there is nothing left)

But overall my point one is the one I feel strongest about, mainly for my on personal situation being under the age of 50 and having been told 4 times (from different conditions and diseases) over the period of my life, I would die - so I have had to accept death.

This might sound depressing, but rather it has given me a positive outlook on life, that few can achieve.

Junior · 24 July 2020

Sdajii said:
Why do you say this? He literally shut down the borders because of the virus, knowing it would harm the economy, which is his #1 priority, he did this because of the virus, and when he did it the WHO said it was unnecessary. This is all fact. It literally only happened a few months ago. Yet you facetiously imply that I am making this up and am misrepresenting reality, while you believe this actual reality never existed! Despite Trump literally going so far that the WHO said he was going overboard and China said he was being crazy for taking such extreme measures, you believe he denied it was a problem?

You have no business accusing anyone else of forming a 'new world reality'.

He shut down Chinese people flying in from China. He didn't shut out Americans flying in from China (with the virus) or anyone from anywhere else. That's all he did. And it failed spectacularly.

satanoperca · 24 July 2020

Junior said:
He shut down Chinese people flying in from China. He didn't shut out Americans flying in from China (with the virus) or anyone from anywhere else. That's all he did. And it failed spectacularly.

Did you read what you wrote?
1. Correct, he stopped Chinese nationals from flying into the USA, good move, if you ask me
2. What the f--k was he meant to do with USA Citizens wanting to return home? Sorry, you cannot come back to your home?

It is these types of stupid statements that make it clearer to me, we are f---kd.

SirRumpole · 24 July 2020

satanoperca said:
2. What the f--k was he meant to do with USA Citizens wanting to return home? Sorry, you cannot come back to your home?

Did he put them in quarantine ?

IFocus · 24 July 2020

SirRumpole said:
Did he put them in quarantine ?

Crickets............

Sdajii · 25 July 2020

Junior said:
I would say these are specific and highly relevant numbers. Around 5-10% of people testing positive with COVID in Victoria right now, end up in hospital because their symptoms are so severe. A significant percentage of those end up in ICU.

Your reference to Sweden is odd....they have had one of the highest fatality rates of anywhere on the planet, AND their economy has suffered, AND they have been shut out of neighbouring countries. Hardly a situation to aspire to.

The people who died were close to death anyway. Their rate of death is tiny now. It's a brilliant case study of 'if you let it run its course you stop having to worry about it'.

Shut out of other countries? I mean, yeah, that's an argument which makes a lot of sense for an Australian...

The thing is, they've already reached their end game phase. Australia hasn't even started the journey.

Congratulating Trump on his 'response' is simply absurd at this point. His own supporters are leaving him in droves right now.

I didn't congratulate Trump. I pointed out the error in the accusations against him. You can't blame Trump for being slow to respond or for being in denial when he was declaring an emergency at the stage where the majority of the rest of the world was saying he was being alarmist. The democrats were literally mocking him and having publicity campaigns advising people to go out and interact with the people in highest risk categories to support them financially and emotionally. Trump was advocating social distance, the opposition was mocking him. This was only quite recently, all over CNN and friends. Trump isn't perfect, there's stuff you can legitimately criticise him for, but your criticism here makes no sense.

Heh, supporters leaving him in droves. I suppose if you can believe those stories even after the global media told us that there was no chance of Trump winning four years ago and Trump didn't take the virus seriously and denied it was there despite him moving so early that he was condemned by the Democrats, the left as a whole, most of mainstream media (condemning him for taking the virus too seriously), then hey, I'm sure you'll believe stories about his supporters leaving him in droves, and you'll believe the next few months of nonsense stories right up until he wins the next election.

Sdajii · 25 July 2020

Junior said:
He shut down Chinese people flying in from China. He didn't shut out Americans flying in from China (with the virus) or anyone from anywhere else. That's all he did. And it failed spectacularly.

What do you expect? You probably think New Zealand is the pinnacle of dealing with this well, right? New Zealanders have always been able to fly to New Zealand. Infected Kiwis recently returned to NZ (this month), broke out of quarantine and went to buy booze.

NZ was always going to have an easy time, the USA was always going to have an impossible task, regardless of who was PM or President. The double standards are crazy.

Smurf1976 · 25 July 2020

Sdajii said:
Sweden has been just about the only country doing what I suggested all along would be best. They now have a negligible number of deaths.

That depends on whether or not you consider 5700 in a country with a population less than half of Australia's as being "negligible" or not?

Smurf1976 · 25 July 2020

satanoperca said:
I feel some posters on here give a biased view of this virus due to 3 reasons :
1. They have never faced death. Well, few have under the age of 50.
2. Those over 50+ are having to accept death is part of life and wish to live forever, this virus challenges that.
3. They live in a bubble, believing everything should be fair in life and humans can solve every issue natures throws at us (really humans are just the bacteria of the earth, consuming everything until there is nothing left)

4. They accept death due to natural causes as inevitable but do not wish to die in order to cover up someone else's failure.

I know a few who I'd confidently put in that category. Death as such they accept but they're not even slightly keen on ending up dead due to something that they see ought to be preventable.

Main issues they seem to have are concerns about the origins and whether it could have been avoided or not plus a concern that the "let it rip" approach is seeking to hide what I'll term structural deficiencies in the design of the economic system.

Prove beyond all doubt that those aren't the case and I think there'll be a greater willingness to have a serious conversation by many (referring to the overall community there not specifically ASF).

Junior · 25 July 2020

Sdajii said:
What do you expect? You probably think New Zealand is the pinnacle of dealing with this well, right? New Zealanders have always been able to fly to New Zealand. Infected Kiwis recently returned to NZ (this month), broke out of quarantine and went to buy booze.

NZ was always going to have an easy time, the USA was always going to have an impossible task, regardless of who was PM or President. The double standards are crazy.

No, I don’t think NZ are the pinnacle. They have a small population on an island, and evidently people who comply with government orders.

I just think it’s farcical patting Trump on the back for his covid response. It’s been a total sh1tshow from day 1, and he will lose the election partly because of that. It’s not 2016, and most Americans are tired of the Trump Circus, having now lived it for 4 years.

SirRumpole · 25 July 2020

Junior said:
No, I don’t think NZ are the pinnacle. They have a small population on an island, and evidently people who comply with government orders.

I just think it’s farcical patting Trump on the back for his covid response. It’s been a total sh1tshow from day 1, and he will lose the election partly because of that. It’s not 2016, and most Americans are tired of the Trump Circus, having now lived it for 4 years.

If Trump claims he has "total power" , then that equates to "total responsibility" for covid.

He's running out of people to blame and I think the voters realise that he's stuffed up.

So is the COVID-19 drama over, or will this go on for some time?

basilio

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So is the COVID-19 drama over, or will this go on for some time?

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