NDIS

[sptrawler]

I think it should have its own thread, as I believe it will be in the news a lot, from here on. When the cost of the pension was brought up a few years ago, I mentioned that the NDIS will make the cost of the pension pale into insignificance.

Government to crack down on billion-dollar fraud as part of NDIS overhaul

Bill Shorten says Coalition did not do enough to prevent criminals targeting disability sector as he brings 10-year review of scheme forward

www.theguardian.com

From the article:
Labor will crackdown on fraud and rip-offs inside the national disability insurance scheme, amid warnings that criminal gangs may be fleecing more than $1bn annually from the scheme.

New NDIS minister Bill Shorten also warned the scheme “can’t subsidise everyone in Australia”, flagging more support for people with less severe disabilities outside the top-tier framework, as Labor looks to reforms of the system it set up in 2013.


“It’s a bureaucratic nightmare for people on the scheme. It’s a maze of red tape. In my opinion I’ve seen waste,” Shorten told the ABC’s Insiders program on Sunday.

“Also a concern that serious organised crime is accessing these payments opportunistically.”
The Herald Sun reported on Sunday that the Australian Crime and Intelligence Commission claimed as much as 5% of the $29bn scheme – or $1.45bn – is being stolen each year through fraud, including through falsified bookings, inflated invoices, or invoices charged through stolen information. Organised crime gangs were also said to be targeting the NDIS.

Aside from criminal activity, Shorten also said he wanted to see the NDIS have a more transparent pricing model for service providers, claiming there may be a “twin rate” where a disabled person is charged more if they use a government-sponsored package.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think it should have its own thread, as I believe it will be in the news a lot, from here on. When the cost of the pension was brought up a few years ago, I mentioned that the NDIS will make the cost of the pension pale into insignificance.

Government to crack down on billion-dollar fraud as part of NDIS overhaul

Bill Shorten says Coalition did not do enough to prevent criminals targeting disability sector as he brings 10-year review of scheme forward

www.theguardian.com

From the article:
Labor will crackdown on fraud and rip-offs inside the national disability insurance scheme, amid warnings that criminal gangs may be fleecing more than $1bn annually from the scheme.

New NDIS minister Bill Shorten also warned the scheme “can’t subsidise everyone in Australia”, flagging more support for people with less severe disabilities outside the top-tier framework, as Labor looks to reforms of the system it set up in 2013.


“It’s a bureaucratic nightmare for people on the scheme. It’s a maze of red tape. In my opinion I’ve seen waste,” Shorten told the ABC’s Insiders program on Sunday.

“Also a concern that serious organised crime is accessing these payments opportunistically.”
The Herald Sun reported on Sunday that the Australian Crime and Intelligence Commission claimed as much as 5% of the $29bn scheme – or $1.45bn – is being stolen each year through fraud, including through falsified bookings, inflated invoices, or invoices charged through stolen information. Organised crime gangs were also said to be targeting the NDIS.

Aside from criminal activity, Shorten also said he wanted to see the NDIS have a more transparent pricing model for service providers, claiming there may be a “twin rate” where a disabled person is charged more if they use a government-sponsored package.

In such a gigantic operation there must be fraud and where there is money there is criminal activity, ripoffs and exploitation.

The problem is, if you put in measures to reduce ripoffs etc, you introduce a whole new cost structure just to deal with the problems, the whole scheme blows out, and the people who need the services sometimes don't get them.

Whoever has to deal with the problem has a big weight on their shoulders, Shorten impressed me as someone who really wants to make it work, I wish him luck.

 

[sptrawler]

In such a gigantic operation there must be fraud and where there is money there is criminal activity, ripoffs and exploitation.

The problem is, if you put in measures to reduce ripoffs etc, you introduce a whole new cost structure just to deal with the problems, the whole scheme blows out, and the people who need the services sometimes don't get them.

Whoever has to deal with the problem has a big weight on their shoulders, Shorten impressed me as someone who really wants to make it work, I wish him luck.

It is a great scheme, but as you say, keeping a lid on the ripoffs will be difficult, charging ridiculous prices to install battery operated video doorbells for deaf people, putting a 'special' price on a gopher etc will be hard to monitor. It possibly is a situation where data matching, a bit like robodebt may work, enter a benchmark price for a device or a service and when the price charged deviates by a certain amount, it is flagged and checked.
I'm sure there will be all sorts of ideas, I think I read the cost expected to blow out to nearly $70b by 2030, so there is no way that will be sustainable in its present format unless costs are reigned in.

 

[basilio]

NDIS is great. Ensuring that "fair and reasonable" charges are made for services is the nightmare. There is out and out fraud and then there are the sharpest of commercial operators who will extract as much as they possibly can from any deal if they think they can get away with it and there is no consequence if they don't.

We have already seen how that works with asylum seeker accommodation and private unemployment programs. IMV systemic overcharging, outstanding private sector profitability and seemingly little accountability.

If the Labour Government wants to earn taxpayer respect and ensure value of money then having serious solutions to these problems would be invaluable. Off the top of my head perhaps creating an equivalent of Medibank for NDIS that was run by the Government and enabled them to have a benchmark of costs that can be used to keep private operators honest ?

 

[SirRumpole]

NDIS is great. Ensuring that "fair and reasonable" charges are made for services is the nightmare. There is out and out fraud and then there are the sharpest of commercial operators who will extract as much as they possibly can from any deal if they think they can get away with it and there is no consequence if they don't.

We have already seen how that works with asylum seeker accommodation and private unemployment programs. IMV systemic overcharging, outstanding private sector profitability and seemingly little accountability.

If the Labour Government wants to earn taxpayer respect and ensure value of money then having serious solutions to these problems would be invaluable. Off the top of my head perhaps creating an equivalent of Medibank for NDIS that was run by the Government and enabled them to have a benchmark of costs that can be used to keep private operators honest ?

Not sure bas, the range of services would be quite high, I'd say they would have to make an assessment of the degree of incapacity for each client then set aside a reasonable amount of spending for that individual and investigate if its exceeded

 

[basilio]

Not sure bas, the range of services would be quite high, I'd say they would have to make an assessment of the degree of incapacity for each client then set aside a reasonable amount of spending for that individual and investigate if its exceeded

I'm not sure how it would work either. However if a well run government NDIS service provider was established it could establish a realistic basis for costs of various services that would benchmark other providers. Let's remember this was one of the rationales for a Government owned bank. A market place competitor that kept private banks honest.

I suggest a quality government NDIS provider would also attract good staff.

 

[sptrawler]

I'd say they would have to make an assessment of the degree of incapacity for each client then set aside a reasonable amount of spending for that individual and investigate if its exceeded

That is how it works ATM, the issue is that service providers are taking advantage of the money set aside, so it actually doesn't go as far as it should. Well that's my understanding

 

[SirRumpole]

I'm not sure how it would work either. However if a well run government NDIS service provider was established it could establish a realistic basis for costs of various services that would benchmark other providers. Let's remember this was one of the rationales for a Government owned bank. A market place competitor that kept private banks honest.

I suggest a quality government NDIS provider would also attract good staff.

I agree l however as pointed out in another thread, governments don't like doing actual work these days, they would rather contractors did it so governments would have someone to blame when things go wrong.

 

[basilio]

I agree l however as pointed out in another thread, governments don't like doing actual work these days, they would rather contractors did it so governments would have someone to blame when things go wrong.

I'm not sure about that Rumpy. I can see the political point of being able to blame someone else. There is also the political point of "reducing Government cost s" which of course is a furphy because the contracted costs are still paid for by taxpayers.

IMV I think the main reason for getting governments out of providing services is because private enterprise then has a better opportunity to maximise its profits. The exiting of governments controlled banks saw a steep increase in private bank profits through aggressive charge increases and staff reductions. Private hospitals cost far more than Public hospitals.

 

[macca]

As mentioned in other threads my wife used to be a disability carer and is still in contact with many in that field.

To our way of thinking NDIS is meant to be financial assistance to help the client and their family live, as close as possible, a "normal" life.

They need Respite care, physical aids, peer socializing, learning of life skills and heaps of other day to day things that we take for granted but are difficult for those with a disability.

Unfortunately, the way it was set up meant it was always a disaster in waiting.

When it started there was no standard protocols for assessment of subsidies, it really needs a rating scale, perhaps a degree of disability scale or such.

Forms, provider standards, client protocols etc were just a mish mash of ideas thrown together without consultation with the clients, providers or the actual carers.

All of these things were created on the run, forms and protocols were released, then altered, then cancelled, then a new form Must be filled in for all clients immediately, 2 months later it would be replaced with a different form which Must be filled in for all clients immediately.

The whole thing was a brain fart, it needed at least another 12 months before it was started.

Some people were given $200k pa, another with a very similar disability gets $80k, others with skills that can hold employment receive $400k per annum !

So now we have a situation where it is easy for people to defraud the scheme because it is a shambles and always has been.

 

[sptrawler]

So now we have a situation where it is easy for people to defraud the scheme because it is a shambles and always has been.

Yes it is a shambles, the intent is great, actually controlling it and monitoring it would be a nightmare.
Someone close to me is deaf has always worked and been productive, with NDIS when they attend a staff meeting, or any work related meeting training session etc an auslan interpreter is now present, so at last they know what is being said.
It has been 20 years without one, but better late than never, thanks to the NDIS.
On the other hand installation of home aids, seem to cost a ridiculous amount, so how they get a handle on that will be interesting.
But having Bill in charge IMO will help, if anyone can get it done,it will be him.

 

[basilio]

I came across this chronology of the progress of NDIS. Labour planned it and introduced it. However the Liberals came to power in 2014 when the program was in its infancy.

There have been many, many reviews and reports. It is a very complex and challenging program. Frankly I think it requires some very full time high quality investigation to improve its functionality and address the tendency to commercial rip off. I hope Bill Shorten can find the talent to take on this task. First job would be to look at the many previous reviews and see what issues were identified and how or if they were resolved. I noticed that Christian Porter was the Minister responsible for NDIS from 2015-2017 in the critical roll out years .

It certainly can't be done in a hurry. Too big, too complex.

The National Disability Insurance Scheme: a chronology

th[align="right"], td[align="right"] { text-align:right !important; } th[align="center"], td[align="center"] { text-align:center !important; } 13 July 2018 PDF version [472KB] Luke Buckmaster and Shannon Clark Social Policy Section Contents Brief history of the NDIS

www.aph.gov.au

 

[sptrawler]

We should get an idea of where the NDIS is heading today.

Shorten promises new approach to ‘sustainability’ of the NDIS

NDIS Minister Bill Shorten will vow to take the scheme’s wider economic benefits into account when assessing its viability.

www.smh.com.au

Bill Shorten will vow to take the National Disability Insurance Scheme’s wider economic benefits into account when assessing its viability in a departure from the former Coalition government.
In his first major speech since being sworn in as NDIS minister, Shorten will tell the Where to From Here conference on Wednesday that the $30 billion-a-year scheme should not be seen as “a single line-item” in the federal budget.

 

[JohnDe]

 

[sptrawler]

NDIS mark-ups as bad as wedding price gouging, insiders say

It's been coined the "disability tax" where some NDIS participants are being charged double or even triple the price of services compared to those not on the scheme, for the exact same treatment or product.

www.abc.net.au

In the wedding industry, couples know the moment they utter the word "wedding", the price of goods and services skyrocket. It's a problem NDIS participants say is also happening to them.

Key points:​

• One client was charged an extra $180 for a physio appointment when she moved to an NDIS plan
• Allied health professionals said most service providers were still undercharging
• An independent review into the NDIS will be released in October

Some participants say they are being charged double or even triple the price of services compared to those not on the scheme, for the exact same treatment or product.

 

[wayneL]

NDIS mark-ups as bad as wedding price gouging, insiders say

It's been coined the "disability tax" where some NDIS participants are being charged double or even triple the price of services compared to those not on the scheme, for the exact same treatment or product.

www.abc.net.au

In the wedding industry, couples know the moment they utter the word "wedding", the price of goods and services skyrocket. It's a problem NDIS participants say is also happening to them.

Key points:​

• One client was charged an extra $180 for a physio appointment when she moved to an NDIS plan
• Allied health professionals said most service providers were still undercharging
• An independent review into the NDIS will be released in October

Some participants say they are being charged double or even triple the price of services compared to those not on the scheme, for the exact same treatment or product.

I can verify that is true.

 

[sptrawler]

Well at last Bill seems to be getting NDIS into shape, which is great.
As I said before the last election, only Labor can bring about certain changes and is the very reason they have to be given terms in office.
If a coalition government was in office and even mentioned changing the NDIS, Welfare or health, it is an attack on those less fortunate, but these systems and services do need to adapt be reviewed and only Labor can do it.
It really does underline the benefit of our two party system IMO, it just gives a better outcome all round.

More staff, longer-term support plans, cost crackdown in minister's sights as Shorten plans NDIS 'reboot'

Saying the national disability insurance scheme has "lost its way", NDIS Minister Bill Shorten outlines a reset that would purge fraudsters, offer longer-term supports, boost staffing and address rising costs that threaten to make the scheme unsustainable.

www.abc.net.au

Disability Services Minister Bill Shorten says the government's central agency for supporting Australians with a disability has "lost its way" and needs significant work to ensure it can survive into the future.
Speaking at the National Press Club, Mr Shorten described what he deemed mismanagement of the scheme for almost the entirety of its existence, resulting in an agency rife with fraud, inefficiency and spiralling costs that would not help participants if left unaddressed.
Mr Shorten said he also wanted to address the spiralling cost of the scheme, including confronting providers who overcharged for their services.

"[Just] because an NDIS package is taxpayer-funded, it is not fair game for the doubling and tripling of prices. It shouldn't be treated as some sort of wedding tax," Mr Shorten said.

"And, remember, if one provider is overcharging for their service it means the participant can't afford another service they might need."

Treasury estimated last year the $34 billion scheme would cost $97 billion by 2032 unless brought under tighter control, and the NDIS has become second to debt interest payments as the federal government's fastest-growing payment.

 

[SirRumpole]

NDIS recipients 'kidnapped' for their benefits (alleges the ABC).

'Human cargo for money': Boarding house residents 'kidnapped' for their NDIS funding

People with high-value NDIS plans are being bribed with fast food, kidnapped and having their funding drained by providers, a bombshell report says.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

'Shouldn't view the NDIS as a chance to build a verandah on their beach house': Government announces crackdown on inflated prices for NDIS services

The federal government is working on a new law to explicitly make it illegal to charge more for products and services because a client is on the National Disability Insurance Scheme.

www.abc.net.au

The federal government is working on a new law to explicitly make it illegal to charge more for products and services because a client is on the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS).

 

[sptrawler]

Well the rorting had to come to an end IMO.

'People with disability got taken out with the Friday afternoon trash': Advocates in shock over NDIS 'growth target'

Disability advocates have reacted furiously to the government's move to rein in spending on the National Disability Insurance Scheme, after it unveiled a plan that could save the budget $50 billion over the next decade.

www.abc.net.au

Disability advocates have reacted furiously to the government's move to rein in spending on the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS), after it unveiled a plan that could save the budget $50 billion over the next decade.

Speaking after national cabinet in Brisbane, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese announced the federal government would implement an "annual growth target" of 8 per cent for the total cost of the scheme by 2026, arguing the NDIS was currently not sustainable.

Under the current trajectory, the cost of the NDIS will reach $97 billion by 2032-33