This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

NBN Rollout Scrapped

Jump to new
The first head rolls,


http://www.google.com.au/#q=Service...14,d.aGc&fp=33bf1b954cd2da95&biw=1334&bih=907

This is the same outfit that lost a construction contract for the NBN itself.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s-service-stream/story-e6frgaif-1226649531855

I can see this whole mess becoming a lawyers picnic.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...other-batts-scam/story-e6frgaif-1226653332346
 
It's observation such as this that makes one wonder how deeply beyond the specific issue of asbestos the NBN rollout problems run.

As for Telstra, they would do better if their senior management met in rooms that had windows out to what was happening under their watch.
 

Calliope said:
The is little doubt that by the time the NBN is finally rolled out it will be redundant.:bad:
Click to expand...

There's nothing there that will make fixed broadband redundant. Even Calliope's hero party aren't stupid enough to think that.

All they have done is experimented with a different part of the spectrum, a part which is extremely susceptible to interference from moisture (humidity, fog, rain) and has extremely poor transmission through solid objects (walls, foliage, earth, metal).

On top of that, it does nothing to address contention, so users are still sharing bandwidth that's a tiny fraction of that available over copper, let alone fibre.
 
Calliope said:
A company like NBN Co which has no experience with cable roll-out, should never have been let loose on Telstra's FAC pits and pipes.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...to-asbestos-risk/story-e6frgaif-1226652607700
Click to expand...

Seems that in your haste to blame the current Govt and NBN Co for everything from a change in the orbit of the earth through to a school of fish dying of the Antarctic coast, you have attacked your keyboard before you knew the facts. What a surprise.

The contractors were working for Telstra, not NBN Co. Telstra contracted them to clean out the ducts ready for the NBN. Seems that having a company with "cable rollout experience", cleaning out their own duct network, is no guarantee of success. The only guarantee is that you can blame the federal govt for it, no matter how far removed.

Telstra spokesman Scott Whiffin said the telco took full responsibility for this segment of the project.

"Telstra has the ultimate accountability and places the highest priority on the safety of its workers and the public," he said.
Click to expand...
 
Instead of looking up old threads Myths, you might address your spin to current NBN problems, or will you just follow the Conroy line and say it is all Telstra's fault.

EDITORIAL
Unforeseen asbestos risk a sign of undue NBN haste
From: The Australian May 30, 2013 12:00AM

IT seems incomprehensible that the Gillard government could have done it again. But the latest worrying revelations about deadly asbestos fibres being disturbed by subcontractors preparing Telstra ducts for the National Broadband Network have an air of deja vu about them.

Once again a massive federal initiative that was conceived in haste, without proper processes, is running into unnecessary and potentially dangerous and costly problems during the delivery phase. We saw a similar scenario unfold with tragic consequences though the home-insulation scheme; and the Building the Education Revolution's school halls program generated enormous waste and duplication. The NBN, as we know, was implemented without a prudent cost-benefit analysis and already has been hit by delays and frustrations as it has failed to meet its own rollout targets. Now the unforeseen difficulties with asbestos seem certain to add to those woes, and the most pertinent question is why this issue was not, in fact, foreseen.

Suburban families, understandably, are now worried about their health because even minute quantities of asbestos fibre can trigger life-threatening disease. Some people have been relocated to hotels while problems are resolved. There are also concerns about workers who almost certainly have encountered asbestos without appropriate protective equipment. In a planned, government-funded infrastructure project, none of this should have occurred. The asbestos, in existing Telstra ducts, should have been readily identified at specific sites before work began. Given the commercial relationship between NBN Co and Telstra, all relevant information should have been systematically shared, including with subcontractors. To think that workers and families could have been exposed needlessly to risk because of lax procedures is an indictment on NBN planning and oversight.

Procedures and training should have been in place to ensure no workers or residents were exposed to risk, yet we learn lengthy NBN implementation studies didn't cover asbestos. Clearly the current controversy will ensure such measures are devised now, but retrofitting processes never should have been necessary. Again, we have seen a large-scale federal government program rolled out on a national scale, demonstrating a lack of political and bureaucratic expertise at this kind of practical service delivery. This is precisely the scenario that led to difficulties and cost blowouts in the earlier school hall and insulation stimulus programs; so given the personal, budgetary and political pain they caused, we might have expected the Gillard government would have learned a lesson. For Communications Minister Stephen Conroy it is just another embarrassment. After a long line of ministerial accidents, he seems to be immune from any internal consequences.

But for voters it could be a final blow, turning the once electorally popular NBN into another example of wasteful and inefficient overreach by a federal government that wants a direct hand in almost every area of national service delivery - from schools and hospitals to broadband and digital set-top boxes. As Labor spruiks its fibre-to-the-home model, the last thing it wants families thinking of is this asbestos shambles.
(my bolds}
 
Calliope said:
Instead of looking up old threads Myths, you might address your spin to current NBN problems, or will you just follow the Conroy line and say it is all Telstra's fault.
Click to expand...

So ducts owned by Telstra, operated by Telstra, being worked on by Telstra contractors is the Federal Govt's responsibility? Even when Telstra accept the blame?

Hmmm. Does this extension apply to all work carried out >2 degrees of separation from the federal Govt, or only when that Govt is Labor?

For example, would you say that Howard Govt incompetence was responsible for the faulty work on fuel lines carried out by Enzed (working as a subcontractor to ADI, a subcontractor to the Navy) in 1998 on the HMAS Westralia, which lead to the death of 4 sailors in the subsequent fire? Or does your wide scope of blame only apply when Labor is in power?
 

More red herrings. I thought you would follow the Conroy line, and even you know that he is a grub

I repeat;
To think that workers and families could have been exposed needlessly to risk because of lax procedures is an indictment on NBN planning and oversight.
Click to expand...
 
Calliope: You're using an editorial/opinion piece as fact in where the blame is. The same issue would happen if Telstra needed to do work themselves without any NBN rollout. You're letting your politics get in the way of things.
 
boofhead said:
Calliope: You're using an editorial/opinion piece as fact in where the blame is. The same issue would happen if Telstra needed to do work themselves without any NBN rollout. You're letting your politics get in the way of things.
Click to expand...

Sorry Boof, I know you would never let political bias affect your judgment. But I am glad you qualify it with an "if". Actually they are carrying out the work getting the pits and pipes ready for the NBN fibre roll-out in suburban streets. The asbestos issue is now an NBN problem and responsibility.
 
Calliope said:
More red herrings. I thought you would follow the Conroy line, and even you know that he is a grub

I repeat;
Click to expand...

I didn't think you'd be able to find a way to answer that one while simultaneously maintaining your position and your inability to criticise a Coalition Govt.


Last time I looked, an editorial from The Australian (Pinnacle of objectivity that it is), does not count as a factual argument.

Again, given that this is Telstra infrastructure, being worked on by Telstra contractors, and with Telstra having admitted all liability, could you please explain how the Govt are at any fault? And while you're pondering that, suggest what more they have done to eliminate the problem, given that there are already procedures and laws in place to cover handling of asbestos, but that those laws were allegedly broken.

And, if I may have a crack one more time, explain the difference between this and the Westralia incident. Why is the Govt at fault this time, but not last time. I would truly love a rationalisation.

EDIT: Oh, look what Google just found:
http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/Tesltra-asbestos-box-unrangan-driveway/786217/

Is this one the Fed Govt's fault too, or just Telstra since it was just a replacement they were doing off their own bat?

EDIT2:
Telstra have once again confirmed that it's entirely their responsibility. You better re-write that editorial...

Telstra operations boss Brendan Riley later announced the company had launched “strong actions” to give priority to the safety of workers, contractors and the community.

“This is our responsibility so we will take direct control of all asbestos-related activity performed by our contractors,” Mr Riley said.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ncy-investigates/story-e6frgaif-1226653569762
 

You'll just have to get over it Myths. I can't help you any more. You are too one-eyed. It will all get sorted come September.

Incidentally, your hero and mentor Quigley mightn't last that long:

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2013/5/30/technology/quigley-faces-internal-nbn-revolt
 
NBNMyths said:
Again, given that this is Telstra infrastructure, being worked on by Telstra contractors, and with Telstra having admitted all liability, could you please explain how the Govt are at any fault?
Click to expand...

Just as it's Telstra's responsibility to monitor the performance of its sub-contractors, so it is also the Government's responsibility to monitor the performance of its subcontractors, Telstar being one.

Speaking about the NBN several months ago, I remember Turnbull explaining that running fibre to the home was a completely different ball game to running fibre to the node, for the very reasons we are seeing now. I think he was specifically referring to the roll out rate NBNCo were assuming and he was suggesting it was unrealistic.

If at the end of the day, it turns out that Telstra having to properly train its subbies in the proper handling of asbestos and perhaps issues of a similar nature add months if not years to the roll out schedule, then ultimately the delay is the responsibility of the Government for choosing a deployment method that had this additional complexity. When they decided on what type of NBN to provide, it was up to the Government to determine the resources needed to deploy it and the timeline it could be delivered in based on the availability of those resources. If they underestimated the resources needed or overestimated the capabilities of the resources available, that is bad planning for which they must take the blame. Individual subcontractors are responsible for completing the tasks assigned to them, but those who assigned the tasks to the subcontractors are too responsible for making the assignment decision in the first place. When the CEO of a public company doesn't deliver, they take the blame. It is no use blaming people lower down in the organisation or outside the organisation for the problem.
 
The inherent nature of underground pit & conduit work is that it is "out of sight and out of mind" so far as the owners are concerned. It's not sexy, it just needs to be there, and very often companies consider it an easy task.

A complication is that very rarely is it practical to build something "as drawn" so simply issuing specifications isn't a lot of use really. There's always some problem in an urban area, usually because another service (or another previously unrecorded asset of the same service) already has a cable or pipe where you want to put the new conduit or pit. That's just how it is, meaning that a very high degree of improvisation is required by those doing the work.

Now throw asbestos into the mix, plus the need to properly compact and reinstate road surfaces (which I very much doubt is being done properly meaning that the trenches will sink and reduce pavement life - you end up paying via rates and taxes). Now add in other services and the risk of damage to their assets. Then there's the public to consider as pedestrians, and of course businesses as well.

Now suppose that you engage a contractor and let them loose on this. You have effectively just written a blank cheque, since there is no means by which you could have fully specified the work and there is no practical means by which you can inspect it once its' complete. And you quite likely won't find that the conduits weren't glued properly until 20 years later when you end up digging things up as a result.

Does anyone honestly think that simply engaging a contractor, even a big one, and just letting them go for it is really going to work? A scope of works subject to constant variation which the contractor itself will determine whilst they also supervise their own work. That's about as close as you'll get to an actual license to print money and it's not a rational way to deliver major infrastructure.

If it were me, I'd have an in-house workforce diluted by staff from major contractors so as to retain control of the works internally. That way you don't have all these problems.
 

You are right. I can only repeat what The Australian editorial said today, because it is true:

To think that workers and families could have been exposed needlessly to risk because of lax procedures is an indictment on NBN planning and oversight.
Click to expand...
 
bellenuit said:
Just as it's Telstra's responsibility to monitor the performance of its sub-contractors, so it is also the Government's responsibility to monitor the performance of its subcontractors, Telstar being one.
Click to expand...


Calliope said:
You are right. I can only repeat what The Australian editorial said today, because it is true:
Click to expand...

Except Telstra are not a subcontractor to the Government for this task. Neither Govt nor NBN Co have contracted (or are paying) Telstra to undertake any work on their infrastructure.

NBN Co are a customer of Telstra. They will pay to lease access to Telstra's suitable pit&pipe infrastructure. Nothing more.

Whatever work Telstra deems is required to make their pit&pipe network ready for use by NBN Co, Telstra will undertake, at Telstra's cost. Once Telstra have made it ready, then NBN Co will begin leasing it.
 

From memory, I thought that was the deal, Telstra were responsible for ensuring the pits and ducts were serviceable.
 
NBNMyths said:
Except Telstra are not a subcontractor to the Government for this task. Neither Govt nor NBN Co have contracted (or are paying) Telstra to undertake any work on their infrastructure.
Click to expand...

OK, they are buying a product from Telstra, so it is still their responsibility to ensure that the product meets their needs and is available when needed. If Telstra can't deliver then they should have contingencies in place to deal with the situation. The Government has made certain delivery commitments to the Australian people and if they fall behind for whatever reason, then it is their fault. If there are so many unknowns that they cannot predict with any precision, then let them say that and give a best and worst case scenario. But when people outline potential negatives or delivery pitfalls to the FTTP approach, they are rejected and sneered at. This has been the case with everything this Government does. A budget surplus being a good example. Anyone who accurately described the storm clouds on the horizon, were accused of talking down the economy.
 

You are right. Any posts on mine on this thread have been targeted by self appointed expert, NBNMyths, and sneered at, because I have the temerity to suggest that anything that goes wrong with this NBN roll-out is the ultimate responsibility of the Labor government, Senator Conroy and NBN Co.

To try and put the blame on Telstra is just a cop out.

AS Myths admits;
Whatever work Telstra deems is required to make their pit&pipe network ready for use by NBN Co, Telstra will undertake, at Telstra's cost. Once Telstra have made it ready, then NBN Co will begin leasing it.
Click to expand...

Telstra sub-contractors are digging up fibro-asbestos-cement pits and pipes infrastructure to make it ready for NBN Co. Under the Turnbull model it they would be left mainly undisturbed in suburban streets.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

March 2025 DDD
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
15K
ducati916
N
The Australian Human Rights Commission: A national disgrace
3 4 5
Replies
85
Views
18K
Tisme
A
National Broadband Network
23 24 25
Replies
483
Views
77K
sptrawler
ASF Mark III
7 8 9
Replies
173
Views
51K
mr. jeff
A
Money management
Replies
0
Views
4K
absolute1
A
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...