Labor's carbon tax lie

Smurf1976 · 3 March 2011

snowking said:
by 2029-30 generation from gas will be delivering 135,000 GWh annually with wind providing 44,000 GWh (about the current power output in Victoria) and hydro-electric systems (by then 70 years old) contributing 13,000 GWh. On this assessment, solar will be bringing up the rear (only 4,000 GWh) along with geothermal (6,000 GWh) and bioenergy (3,000 GWh).

Basically, that is the end result assuming that virtually all new and replacement non-intermittent generation is gas-fired. I have serious doubts that this will actually occur due to gas supply physical and financial constraints. Time will tell however...

Coal in 2030 is essentially at the level that would result from a "no new construction" policy. That is, just keep running existing plants until they are absolutely worn out.

As for the bit about 70 year old hydro schemes, that's about right on average but by 2030 the oldest significant scheme in operation will be 116 years old.

white_goodman · 4 March 2011

basilio said:
Ah yet another carefully nuanced and balanced ASF topic. Perhaps we should also start one up on Labour baby killers and pedophiles. (Irony, Irony, !!)

Let's get to the basis of all this nonsense. Almost every intelligent climate scientist who understands basic science and can read figures recognizes that human produced CO2 is changing our climate and is causing climate change on a potentially catastrophic level.

more reading required

OzWaveGuy · 4 March 2011

Carbon Tax Protests

For all of those that are against this tax (and it seems that there's a few on ASF) here's your chance to rally against this ludicrous money grab...23rd of March in most cities...

http://www.stopgillardscarbontax.com/campaign-material.html

Rallies against Julia Gillard and Bob Brown's Carbon Tax.

CANBERRA - the big one!

Date: 23 March
Time: 10:30am
Location: Parliament House
Register/more info: Click here

MELBOURNE

Date:12 March
Time: 9:30am for 10:00am start
Location: Julia Gillard's Electorate Office, 6 Synnot Street Werribee, Vic
Email: stopcarbontax@gmail.com
Register/more info: Click here

Date: 23 March
Time: 10:30am
Location: TBA - Parliament House?
Register/more info: Click here

SYDNEY

Date: 2 April
Time: 10:30am
Location: NSW Parliament House, Macquarie Street, Sydney
Register/more info: Click here

BRISBANE

Date: 23 March
Time: 10:30am
Location: Qld Parliament, Cnr George and Alice Streets
Register/more info: Click here

ADELAIDE

Date: 23 March
Time: 10:30am
Location: TBA - Parliament House?
Email: shirl.162@bigpond.com
Register/more info: Click here

PERTH

Date: 23 March
Time: 10:30am
Location: Parliament House, Harvest Terace, Perth
Contact: Janet Thompson 0417 815 595, mmattjanet@westnet.com.au
Register/more info: Click here

Do you know of any other protests? Email us and let us know!

Julia · 4 March 2011

Many of us live in regional areas so are unable to join the above meetings.

Next best thing is to 'sign' the online petition against the tax.
Please pass on to all you can.

http://www.stopgillardscarbontax.com/

So_Cynical · 4 March 2011

Julia said:
Many of us live in regional areas so are unable to join the above meetings.

Next best thing is to 'sign' the online petition against the tax.
Please pass on to all you can.

http://www.stopgillardscarbontax.com/

UPDATE: OVER 15,500 SIGNATURES!!!

Looks like its a roaring success.

Garpal Gumnut · 5 March 2011

So_Cynical said:
UPDATE: OVER 15,500 SIGNATURES!!!

Looks like its a roaring success.

There's only one vote that counts, an election.

And your ALP basket weavers and developers and climate warmers are history, firstly in NSW and then whenever Jools upsets Bob.

gg

IFocus · 5 March 2011

Lenore Taylor points out how the coalition direct action carbon plan is really just a transition to a tax

On February 4, 2010, the Coalition leader, Tony Abbott, wrote this about his newly minted ''Direct Action'' climate plan: ''Our policy is also much cheaper. We have estimated that it will cost $3.2 billion over four years … Our policy has been independently costed. A team of economists at the respected firm Frontier Economics says our policy is both economically and environmentally responsible.''

Actually, according to Danny Price, managing director of Frontier Economics, that's not at all what his firm had said. ''I had to ring them up and tell them not to say I supported it. All I'd said was that their numbers added up, I didn't say I supported it,'' Price explains.

The Coalition says its budget is sufficient to buy the emissions necessary to meet Australia's minimum 5 per cent target but it does not say what would happen if international talks progress far enough to meet the conditions (to which the Coalition has agreed) for a higher target, or what will happen to the bits of the economy that do not get government grants, or what will happen after the first 10 years.

Price suspects that is because ''Direct Action'' was developed as a transitional policy.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ot-all-the-climates-fault-20110304-1bhrl.html

startrader · 5 March 2011

IFocus said:
Lenore Taylor points out how the coalition direct action carbon plan is really just a transition to a tax

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ot-all-the-climates-fault-20110304-1bhrl.html

Well of course the Herald would say that wouldn't they. They spend a lot of their time and resources trying to make the Coalition look bad. I think the public is starting to wise up now though and are starting to see through the rubbish they write.

trainspotter · 5 March 2011

So_Cynical said:
UPDATE: OVER 15,500 SIGNATURES!!!

Looks like its a roaring success.

Hmmmmmmm let me see. Julia Gillard strikes deal with Greens on the 24th Feb and announces Carbon Tax on 25th Feb.

Allowing a day to register website and a day to create makes it about the 27th February. Let's say petition starts on same day shall we .... for comedy purposes only.

Yesterday was the 4th of March. This means that 15,500 signatures in less than 6 days.

Lets give this an exponential rate of 1.5 for the maths equation. Afterall these things have a habit of snowballing as more people find out about it.

So therefore when July 1st 2012 rolls around you will have over 1,863,874 signatures.

I would qualify this as a roaring success in any terms.

trainspotter · 5 March 2011

She announced a two-stage plan that would start with a fixed price on carbon for between three and five years, with the second stage being an emissions trading scheme.

Ms Gillard said after the fixed carbon price began in 2012, the country would move to a “cap-and-trade” emissions trading scheme within three to five years.

But but but ...... "But despite the price effects, putting a price on carbon was the most efficient way to cut carbon pollution, she said."

“If you put a price on something - people will use less of it.''

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...n-climate-change/story-e6frf7l6-1226011276164

Look at how well the "cap and trade" ETS has worked in Europe now shall we?

As the cross-party Commons Environmental Audit Committee noted: “there is little or no evidence that Phase I is leading to any cutbacks in actual emissions at all, whether in the UK or elsewhere in the EU.” In its first year of operation (2005 to 2006) emissions covered by the ETS rose 3.6% in the UK, and rose by 0.8% across the EU as a whole.

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/research/etsp2.pdf

Oooooooooooopsies ....... I want my carbon tax credits (the new black economy of big business)

Calliope · 5 March 2011

According to the Age (The Pravda on the Yarra) the Gillard/Gadaffi comparison is much more venal than winning an election based on a lie. Perhaps the Labor caucus should pull Gillard into line about her psychopathic lying.

However she won't stop lying while it works. She displaced Rudd while swearing loyalty to him, and she scrambled home with a lie after the election with the aid of two independents who betrayed their electorates.

Andrew Bolt
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 at 10:55am

It took a while, but days after Julia Gillard revealed she’d stolen the election with a lie about her “carbon tax”, The Age finally hits the outrage button:

"Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is under pressure to pull his MPs into line after a Liberal frontbencher compared Prime Minister Julia Gillard to Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi because of her plan to introduce a carbon price."

And an extra point for covering up Gillard’s broken promise by describing her new “carbon tax” - which she’d vowed never to introduce - as a “carbon price” instead.

trainspotter · 5 March 2011

Oh oh ....... Labor is being led to the slaughterhouse in NSW.

The thumbs-down for the carbon tax from NSW voters comes as yet another opinion poll confirms Labor is set to get an unprecedented hiding at the election.

The Daily Telegraph-Galaxy poll published yesterday put Labor's primary support at 23 per cent and support for the Coalition at 50 per cent.

A Newspoll published in The Australian last month had Labor's support at 23 per cent and the Coalition's at 46 per cent.

Asked how the carbon tax would help the environment in practical terms, 76 per cent of those polled were confused by the issue. They were negative about the promised compensation package. While 62 per cent said compensation would be insufficient or worse, 57 per cent found a tax followed by a rebate "an illogical situation".

Roll on March 26th. We will feel the electorates wrath on the subject matter at first hand.

So_Cynical · 5 March 2011

trainspotter said:
Oh oh ....... Labor is being led to the slaughterhouse in NSW.

The thumbs-down for the carbon tax from NSW voters comes as yet another opinion poll confirms Labor is set to get an unprecedented hiding at the election.

The Daily Telegraph-Galaxy poll published yesterday put Labor's primary support at 23 per cent and support for the Coalition at 50 per cent.

A Newspoll published in The Australian last month had Labor's support at 23 per cent and the Coalition's at 46 per cent.

Asked how the carbon tax would help the environment in practical terms, 76 per cent of those polled were confused by the issue. They were negative about the promised compensation package. While 62 per cent said compensation would be insufficient or worse, 57 per cent found a tax followed by a rebate "an illogical situation".

Roll on March 26th. We will feel the electorates wrath on the subject matter at first hand.

Spin Spin Spin Tranny

NSW Labor was gona get slaughtered regardless of any greenhouse action or inaction....that's the price political party's pay after the roaring success of 15 years in Government.

trainspotter · 5 March 2011

So_Cynical said:
Spin Spin Spin Tranny

NSW Labor was gona get slaughtered regardless of any greenhouse action or inaction....that's the price political party's pay after the roaring success of 15 years in Government.

Not my spin So_Cycical. Newspoll and Galaxy did the poll.

Ummmmmmmm ..... define "roaring success" please. If they are so good then why should they be slaughtered on March 26th?

Is this an oxymoron or your attempt at sarcasm?

So_Cynical · 5 March 2011

trainspotter said:
Not my spin So_Cycical. Newspoll and Galaxy did the poll.

But its your spin.

trainspotter · 5 March 2011

So_Cynical said:
But its your spin.

Wrong again old chap. Stolen from here. :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ristina-keneally/story-fn59niix-1226016177155

JULIA Gillard's proposed carbon tax is mugging NSW Labor in the lead-up to the state election, with more than three-quarters of voters not convinced the measure will do anything to help the environment.

Still waiting for an answer to this question .... "If they are so good then why should they be slaughtered on March 26th"

So_Cynical · 5 March 2011

trainspotter said:
Wrong again old chap. Stolen from here. :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ristina-keneally/story-fn59niix-1226016177155

Its usual to link and quote when you cut and paste from another source..unless of course your trying to hide something.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-tax-mugs-kristina-keneally/story-fn59niix-1226016177155 said:
This is among the findings of internal Liberal Party opinion polling, conducted ahead of the March 26 state election, that has been provided to The Weekend Australian.

you didn't include that part of the story because your agenda is to spin....when you selectively edit to deceive, your spinning.

trainspotter said:
JULIA Gillard's proposed carbon tax is mugging NSW Labor in the lead-up to the state election, with more than three-quarters of voters not convinced the measure will do anything to help the environment.

Still waiting for an answer to this question .... "If they are so good then why should they be slaughtered on March 26th"

I didn't comment on how good or bad they are or have been...simply pointed out that any Party that stays in power for 15 years is a "roaring success" certainly when compared to a online poll with 15000 signatures.

Logique · 5 March 2011

trainspotter said:
...They were negative about the promised compensation package. While 62 per cent said compensation would be insufficient or worse, 57 per cent found a tax followed by a rebate "an illogical situation".... Roll on March 26th...

We New South Welsh will do our duty by the nation. We have seen who is thought worthy of compensation and who isn't. A good summary is - low income, Labor-voting 'working families'.

That is, the ideologically approved will receive electricity compensation. For a little while anyway, until the heat is off.

trainspotter · 5 March 2011

So_Cynical said:
Its usual to link and quote when you cut and paste from another source..unless of course your trying to hide something.

you didn't include that part of the story because your agenda is to spin....when you selectively edit to deceive, your spinning.

I didn't comment on how good or bad they are or have been...simply pointed out that any Party that stays in power for 15 years is a "roaring success" certainly when compared to a online poll with 15000 signatures.

Ooooops my bad. Usually when you cut and paste from that particular website it automatically throws up the link?? My faux pas entirely, which is why I pointed it out where I stole it from and added the link this time. Also why I had it in ITALICS in the first place as well.

Did you actually read this part ? The Daily Telegraph-Galaxy poll published yesterday put Labor's primary support at 23 per cent and support for the Coalition at 50 per cent.

A Newspoll published in The Australian last month had Labor's support at 23 per cent and the Coalition's at 46 per cent.

It was taken from the same article by the way. I have an agenda? I am intentionally spinning and deceiving? LOLOL. ...... you are really tilting at windmills now Don Quixote.

So therefore to use your grounding of a "roaring success" a political party needs to be in power for a long period of time.

IPSO FACTO:- Longest serving Prime Ministers - John Howard (Liberal) 11 years 8 months and 22 days and Robert Menzies (Liberal) 16 years, 1 month, 8 days are a "roaring success" under your guidelines then?

We have the Liberal Party over here in WA and they are JUST AS USELESS in what they are doing here as well. Building 471 million dollar friggin water parks on the foreshore in Perth when police are leaving the Force in record numbers. Overcrowding in hospitals when they announce a billion dollar surplus from the mining boom. Some schools over here don't even have airconditioniing BUT they have HEATERS !!!!! AND WA has just gone through a record heat wave. GENIUS stuff mate.

Is that spinning and deceiving enough for you So_Cyclical? Oh yeah ....... I also think Tony Abbott is a thickhead who is not fit to run this great country of ours either. BUT the party machine behind him knows how to run a business and not keep swiping a giant credit card. GET MY DRIFT?

sails · 5 March 2011

Logique said:
We New South Welsh will do our duty by the nation. We have seen who is thought worthy of compensation and who isn't. A good summary is - low income, Labor-voting 'working families'.

That is, the ideologically approved will receive electricity compensation. For a little while anyway, until the heat is off.

:iagree:

I was talking with someone who is on the pension recently and the subject of carbon tax came up. He wasn't a bit concerned as he said he would be compensated. Won't affect him.

I suggested that perhaps he should be concerned. Gillard and Swan clearly didn't mean a word they said to get votes before the last election. So if these "unconcerned" citizens vote labor back in, it is quite likely they will also feel the sting of broken promises where they may not be compensated as much as they thought. But then it will be much too late...

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