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Is this legal for tax purposes?

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24 June 2009
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Hello,

My friend have a realised profit of ~5000 this year. This friend also have an unrealised loss of ~41000. Is it legal for him to realise a loss of ~5000 to offset the gain and buy the same stock back after June 30th?

Thank you!
 
It is illegal to sell a stock purely to avoid tax, this is commonly known as a 'wash sale' (do a search for it).

However if you were audited and can provided a reason as to why you sold that amount and bought back again then you may get away with it. However if the amount was similar to the gain it would look very suss.

Consult an accountant, as ASF members are not allowed to give financial advice.
 
Just my

If you sell and then buy straight back then its a no no but if you sell then buy back a few days later then its very hard to prove (or even suggest) you were doing a wash.
 
Just say your selling it because you thought over the next week the stock would drop dramatically and then you bought it back because it didn't drop dramatically (or did)
 
The ATO announcement specifically stated that "selling to a related party and buying them back the next day to gain a tax advantage" is a no no.

IMO if you sold them on the open market at arm's length and bought them back next day, it is a legitimate commercial transaction. Since when did the ATO gain the power to infringe on our constitutional rights to engage in legal enterprise?? Selling and buying shares on the open market (ASX) is perfectly legal and since when was it prohibited that you cannot sell & buy the same stock within 24 hours??

Where is the tax avoidance or tax minimisation?? All you have done is crystallise your tax lose this year. If your shares go up in value next year and you sell them you will have to pay tax on a bigger profit. It is just a timing issue.

It is every person's god given right to manage his affairs with the best possible outcome as far as the law will allow.

The ATO is fast becoming a law unto itself. It stinks.
 
The ATO announcement specifically stated that "selling to a related party and buying them back the next day to gain a tax advantage" is a no no.
That's not all they state:


cheers
 
Its still hard to prove if you wait a few days...

Unfortunately tax law states that the burden of proof alway lies with the taxpayer.

The ATO only has to believe that you are trying to avoid tax and they can zap you. They don't have to prove anything.

The taxpayer has to come up with the evidence that they weren't trying to do anything illegal. Then that evidence has to be believed by a tribunal or court if the taxpayer appeals.

Most tax law sides with the ATO.
 
The taxpayer has to come up with the evidence that they weren't trying to do anything illegal

Sounds like a ridiculous situation. I can't believe that the burden is on the defendant.

"Prove it was a genuine trade."

"You'll have to get a brain scan from three months ago, sir."
 
Sounds like a ridiculous situation. I can't believe that the burden is on the defendant.

"Prove it was a genuine trade."

"You'll have to get a brain scan from three months ago, sir."

What do you expect though? The tax man writes the laws.

And to be honest judging by some of the comments in this thread and other threads related to tax issues, I can understand why the laws are written like that.
 

Oh bloody hell, the taxpayer use to have to supply the gun, then he had to provide his own bullets and now you are telling me he has to pull the trigger as well !!!
 
Oh bloody hell, the taxpayer use to have to supply the gun, then he had to provide his own bullets and now you are telling me he has to pull the trigger as well !!!

Unfortunately yes.

I think they do this to discourage people from getting too creative in tax minimisation.

It's much more efficient to close the barn doors before the horse even thinks about bolting.
 

It shouldn't be too hard pulling out a news article, futures levels or commoditiy prices to make up some bs reason to why you thought the price was going to fall...

Anything would do - N Korea testing weapons, new financial data comming out, suicide bombing in middle east (shoudlnt be too hard as there's one over day and say thats why you thought it was going to fall.
 

That might work if you are a frequent trader and had evidence of previous instances, I don't know if it would work for buy and hold investors though.

It's always determined on a case by case basis.
 
That might work if you are a frequent trader and had evidence of previous instances, I don't know if it would work for buy and hold investors though.


thats correct ----- if u r registered as a trader with the ATO (bless their souls ) ----- and u have traded the instrument (stock/whatever) in question a "few times" previously --- they (that would be the tax man) DON'T have a leg to stand on ---

if u r an investor, they will try and scr#w with u ----

but if u r a trader ----- well, we have to have some benefits for all the stress don't we !!

moral of the story -- dont mix trading with investing ----- (and just for the record --- dont mix muesli with yr corn flakes --- it doesnt work !! ---- don't believe me ?? -- try it !! )

ps fruit works ok though !!
 
thats correct ----- if u r registered as a trader with the ATO (bless their souls ) ----- and u have traded the instrument (stock/whatever) in question a "few times" previously --- they (that would be the tax man) DON'T have a leg to stand on ---
IIRC if you are registered as a trader your trading profit/loss is not a CGT event so the "wash sale" will not apply since it only applies to assets that trigger a CGT event.

cheers
 
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