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Has the recession begun?

Has the recession begun?

  • Yes, clearly

    Votes: 20 17.5%
  • No, but it will soon!

    Votes: 46 40.4%
  • No, we won't have a recession

    Votes: 35 30.7%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 13 11.4%

  • Total voters
    114
Next year is going to be interesting im sure !
A pun?Interesting in the sense that the Americans will probably continue to lower interest rates instead of increasing to fight inflation as well as increased rates here to fight the same devil.
But to the topic-

Guest Commentary, by Richard Benson
The economy's last hurrah
December 07, 2007
Richard Benson is president of Specialty Finance Group, LLC , offering diversified investment banking services.


As 2007 wounds down, it’s time to reflect on how bogus government statistics along with Wall Street media hype have impacted the psychology and perception in the financial markets. Sheer disappointment is one way to describe what the financial markets will experience as the existing belief in a Goldilocks economy is challenged by sobering facts and a hard landing, yet to come.
The US Economy is in terrible shape! Our government has been psychologically manipulating the American people every time they publish blatantly false data on employment and income that makes our economy look stronger than it really is. If the average American realized how bad things were, they might try to save more. But spending would collapse if they did, so the goal of the Bush Administration seems to be to hide any signs of a recession as long as possible.
The big reason the economy is going over the cliff is not the direct result of the sub-prime mortgage debacle and the hundreds of billions in investor dollars that have been lost, although this is a major contributing factor. The reason, we focus on, is that the economy is already in recession as a direct result of homeowners having had that ATM ripped out of their house. Stories like the homeowner who purchased a home for $100,000 years ago but got carried away in the frenzy of the last decade by doing 4 cash out REFI’s, running their mortgage balance up to $625,000 while living large, are last year’s stories. That $800 billion a year in Mortgage Equity Withdrawal ("MEW") has come to a sudden end and with the average homeowner no longer living large off the house, the economy is left with that "big sucking sound".
The US economy is continuing to weaken in many areas: The US Treasury has received lower income tax receipts forcing state and local governments to cut back because they’re coming up short; capital gains on home sales are falling as home prices fall; property tax receipts are also declining as assessed values go down; weak retail sales mean lower sales tax receipts; corporate profits are down, along with corporate taxes paid; and, many self-employed workers may be employed, but they’re not making anything or only half of what they used to.
Moreover, America is not the only country with an economic problem. The housing bubble is turning out to be worldwide, with a major impact on England and much of Europe. The biggest economic losers include the emerging markets, especially China. Don't believe for one second those Wall Street touts selling the notion that the emerging markets have "decoupled" from the US economy and their growth will lead the world forward without the American consumer. That’s hogwash. Where do you think their trade surpluses and big sales gains (driving investment in plants and equipment) came from anyway? From the American consumer and MEW! Take $800 billion of easy spending away from the American consumer and you're going to see a lot of blow back in lost sales by the emerging market countries, including China.
As the recession takes hold, I see this holiday shopping hype as the Economy’s Last Hurrah, but it’s not just the American economy that’s going to hear that "big sucking sound" in the New Year!
 
I agree with all that Richard said in that article ..... there is one more absolutely MONUMENTAL liability the USA faces and is woefully unprepared for, one that seldom if ever gets mentioned, their upcoming social security obligations to a Generation born at a rate greater than that at any other time in human history, aka the Baby Boomers ....



Americans' government obligations are five times what people owe for mortgages, car loans, credit cards and other personal debt.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-24-retiree-taxpayers_x.htm
 
This is article good reading to, written a year ago with many things actually coming into fruition since publishing ....




http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney07052006.html
 

I also believe that the U.S will go into recession but i think we will avoid it.

I think it's a very valid point about the U.S$ and at this early point is one of the reasons i believe that a recession there won't be a long drawn out affair.

You are correct about consumer spending but the U.S$, while not making up for this completely, will certainly have a positive effect on exports.
 

Really how will we avoid it?

We might just get by on agriculture but even then you have to ship and move it..........
 
An interesting article from Paul Kasriel on the likelihood of a US recession. His proprietary econometric modeling technique is signaling a high probability of a recession. Unlike other models, his has never given a false signal. Although there is a first time for everything.

Probing The Probabilities of a 2008 Recession
 
Here another interesting read, a paper discussing " Is the US Bankrupt " ?


http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/07/Kotlikoff.pdf
 
Maybe we will have a Keating recession, "the one we have to have". But if we do the recovery will take us to new highs. All you need to know is where is the low. Like kids in the car "are we there yet?"
 
The general consensus amongst the Aussie bank & fundie chief economists appears to be the US spending most of H1 in recession (assuming they are not already in one technically? Damn lagging economic indicators) however most agree Australia is likely to avoid the worst of it.

Either way we should know how much the Bush administration's efforts to draw out the ARMs resets peak month from April 08 will effect the credit crisis shortly. In Australia it has already created a radical re-think of treasury operations for all major players - inter bank warehousing is growing astonomically as treasuries are adopting mountains of prime debt (in Australia it really should be called a credit quality crisis) to re-balance their book quality.
 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aROBkKxFM.RM&refer=home
 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/07/news/economy/feldstein/index.htm

Woot some of the reputable people are coming out of the wood work and adding 6 cents worth, This fella says odds are greater than 50/50 EVEN if the Fed keeps cutting rates , maybe these guys are starting to read some Internet blogs lol ?
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/money/2008/01/10/cnsachs110.xml


Some more topguns joining the Bear Brigade ....

Wow 2.5pc Interest rates, that'll hook us up with a nice dose of Inflation, RBA might have to go up by about us much as they go down ?
 


I would add that employment is a lagging indicator and that by the time the unemployment rate ratchets up by half a percent recessions are usually in full swing.

Both comments proving true!!!!!!
 
Finally someone having a crack at quantifying the effects to Australia ...



http://business.theage.com.au/recession-will-hit-australia-says-goldman/20080110-1lb2.html
 
Yes , Wys well brought back .

..... and every housing market collapse with depth , has ALWAYS led to a recession or worse . It's the levels here that really worry me , we've never witnessed one as expansive as this .
Unfortunately it hits many small businesses on the boundaries of the sector hard too , another type of domino effect .
 
Maybe worth reviving this old thread as i think its a bit more relevant nowdays ?

Board fears recession and the blame game
Peter Martin
August 20, 2008
WHAT'S driving the nine members of Australia's Reserve Bank board? Their deepest, most primal fear. It's that Australia will slide into recession and their fingerprints will be all over it.


The board members are worried Australia's banks made things hard for them last month by pushing up rates all on their own
and they are also worried that economies worldwide are weakening.
Very worried.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/board-fears-recession-and-the-blame-game-20080819-3y8i.html
 
Thanks to runaway inflation, most people's real wages are already in recession. Rate cuts might postpone a technical recession until next year though.
 
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