Dave... I am currently working on our rats of Tobuk & love the accolades our guys in any of our forces recieve, when the germans, under the leadership of Erwin Rommell, tried to take Tobruk failed when confronted by the Aussies, (their were some other nations there but in very small numbers), It's been said Hitler asked why the might of the german army was stopped by a division of colonials, to which Rommell was reported to reply "Sir they are not a division of colonials, they are a division of Australians, give me 2 divisions of Australians & I will conquer the world for you".
1. Maybe you could explain why it is only this year that there has been any focus at all on Villers Bretonneux, given that on the 25th April 90 years ago, the Australians gained a major foothold against the German onslaught. I didn't even know about the actual date until this year, nor I think, did most Australians. Yet my grandfather served there.
2. All we would hear about in the media for Anzac Day was the Gallipoli story, which was a monumental military failure. So, I guess, why has the VB story been completely ignored until now?
kennas,kennas said:3. P, I can’t see how you can be serious about commenting on these issues when you didn’t even know the dates of this most important conflict, and your grandfather was there?
4. As far as focusing on VB this year, I anticipate many other significant Australian battle sites will be commemorated into the future. Kokoda already has been, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Long Tan became another focal point.
P, I can ´t see how you can be serious about commenting on these issues when you didn ´t even know the dates of this most important conflict, and your grandfather was there?
but you're right in that there are some great Rommel quotesrommel quotes etc
Quotations about Rommel1. "In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine."
2. "Courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility."
3. "So long as one isn't carrying one's head under one's arm, things aren't too bad."
4. "A risk is a chance you take; if it fails you can recover. A gamble is a chance taken; if it fails, recovery is impossible."
5. "Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders."
6. "One must not judge everyone in the world by his qualities as a soldier: otherwise we should have no civilization."
7. "Messages can't be intercepted if they aren't sent, can they?"
8. "This business with the Jews has got to stop."
9. "What was really amazing was the speed with which the Americans adapted themselves to modern warfare. Starting from scratch an army has been crafted in the very minimum of time, which, in equipment, armament and organization of all arms, surpasses anything the world has yet seen."
10. The British Parliament considered a censure vote against Winston Churchill following the surrender of Tobruk. The vote failed, but in the course of the debate, Churchill stated:
"We have a very daring and skilful opponent against us, and, may I say across the havoc of war, a great general."
11. Churchill again, on hearing of Rommel's death:
"He also deserves our respect, because, although a loyal German soldier, he came to hate Hitler and all his works, and took part in the conspiracy to rescue Germany by displacing the maniac and tyrant. For this, he paid the forfeit of his life. In the sombre wars of modern democracy, there is little place for chivalry."
Yes, you are right, apologies. I didn ´t consider that comment too well. Must be this Amazonian humidity. I just can ´t understand why we shouldn ´t be drawing attention to the serviceman who have ´done their duty ´ and recognising their service whether it was right or wrong in a politcal sence. As far as ex diggers not wanting to talk about their service and not participate in ANZAC Days, they obviously need some counselling, and if we just look at them and say óh well, that was the war ´and don ´t do anything about it, they ´ll live (and did live) a life in depression. Any more focus put on ANZAC Day and what it really means can only be a good thing IMO. And yes, I did three tours of ´war like ´ service, only one where it was really dodgy, but a far cry from the Western Front. But that all needs to be put in perspective too. Some may say no one ´s war experience should be compared for how hard and distressing it was. Treading on murky ground there.So from the perspective of someone who has never met their grandfather because of the war, I would have thought I have more 'right' to comment than many others who are posting. So are you saying that because I didnt know details or dates (because that is how he wanted it) that I have somehow don't deserve a voice?Or are you suggesting I made it all up
Plans for annual Villers-Bretonneux Anzac Day service
May 23, 2008
THE federal Government will discuss with French authorities the staging of annual Anzac Day services in Villers-Bretonneux.
A special 90th anniversary dawn service was held in the French town last month.
The Battle of Villers-Bretonneux was fought in April 1918 when Australian forces ejected German defenders from the village but at a cost of 1200 dead.
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says an annual dawn service on Anzac Day will be a recognition that 300,000 Australians served on the western front in France during World War I, with some 50,000 losing their lives.
"Alan Griffin, the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, has been in my ear about this for some time," Mr Rudd told the Nine Network.
"His recommendation to me is that we proceed and that is that.
"There will be an annual dawn service at Villers-Bretonneux from next year on."
The principal Australian War Memorial in France is located at the town, along with the graves of 770 Australian soldiers.
Mr Rudd says Gallipoli, from where Anzac Day originated, is important for familiar reasons.
"This (Villers-Bretonneux) provides an additional opportunity for Australians to honour our war dead," he said.
"(Mr) Griffin will be organising this in consultation with the town administration of Villers-Bretonneux to make sure that it all works for them as well. It is their town."
.... with the assistance of some NZ arty.
.. Apparently 2 days before Long Tan, they downgraded the Vietnam war to "less dangerous than Korea" - halved the "recognition factor" - out of the hands of the average bureaucrats - and only the Govt could intervene to set it right (as I understand it).
SAMANTHA DONOVAN: Next Monday retired Lieutenant Colonel Harry Smith and some of his men will get together in Queensland to mark the 42nd anniversary of the Battle of Long Tan
SAMANTHA DONOVAN: The Federal Government has finally agreed to award Harry Smith the Star of Gallantry, which he says he'll accept on behalf of all his men, particularly the 18 who were killed at Long Tan.
His platoon commanders Dave Sabben and Geoff Kendall will be offered the Medal for Gallantry, recognising they never received the awards Harry Smith recommended them for.
And the entire D Company 6th Battalion of the Royal Australian Regiment is finally being given permission to wear the Gallantry Crosses with the citation emblem awarded to them in 1966 by the then Republic of Vietnam.
Veteran Affairs Minister Alan Griffin says today's announcement is long overdue.
ALAN GRIFFIN: This has been a battle for recognition, due recognition to everyone who was part of the Battle of Long Tan. The fact is, it shouldn't have taken this long.
SAMANTHA DONOVAN: Harry Smith blames the military system of the day for his men not getting the awards he recommended them for.
HARRY SMITH: The scale for awards for Vietnam was reduced by half, two days before the Battle of Long Tan, on the basis that our generals thought that Vietnam was not as serious a conflict as Korea.
I don't particularly blame any particular senior officer but it was the system.
SAMANTHA DONOVAN: Harry Smith has campaigned for the original recommendations to be honoured since secrecy restrictions were lifted on several documents 12 years ago.
He says the biggest problem was that the awarding of medals couldn't be reviewed by an ombudsman or court.
HARRY SMITH: You know it's very difficult to argue with pure bloody-mindedness, if I could say that, amongst advisors who don't know what war is all about.
And they refused to accept the word of people like myself and my officers that were involved in the war. And now that the ALP has introduced a new tribunal I would suggest a whole new system will be there for other veterans who might have similar problems.
SAMANTHA DONOVAN: And Harry Smith's battle to have the veterans of Long Tan properly recognised isn't quite over yet.
He's ready to give evidence to the Federal Government's newly established Defence Honours and Awards Tribunal when it considers the cases of another two officers and nine soldiers who were recommended for awards they never received.
Glenn,As a "Drop Short" for 20 odd years the Royal Australian Artillery motto is as follows, " UBIQUE QUOFAS ET GLORIA DU****" which loosely translated means "Everywhere Where Right and Glory Lead"
thanks glennAs a "Drop Short" for 20 odd years the Royal Australian Artillery motto is as follows, " UBIQUE QUOFAS ET GLORIA DU****" which loosely translated means "Everywhere Where Right and Glory Lead"
Cheers, well whatever the case, I think Australians sometimes forget that there's an NZ part to the ANZAC bit, and after been to Galipolli and understand the NZ contribution, and served with Kiwis on operations, I can't help but get a lump in my throat whenever I discuss Australian and NZ forces operating together. Like they are now in most places.Kennas,
Off the top of my head there was a Kiwi forward observer party attached to D Company at Long Tan but the rounds came from Aussie guns in Nui Dat.
http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/vietnam/longtan.html
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