Solar power

[Lantern]

The party is over. In NSW at least. Our 60c is going to be 40c by retrospective legislation. So much for contracts with Country Energy. Slater and Gordon where are you.

Is that legal. If any other company did that the Dept. of Fair Trading would "drag then over the coals"

It's like moving the goalposts during the game. This will hurt a lot of working family's and pensioners.

People who tried to do the right thing and tried to insure themselves against rising electricity prices.

I can't believe it, wasn't it "enshrined" in legislation?

 

[Ferret]

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/e...ower-rebate-20110513-1embd.html#ixzz1MHlCvryj

The Solar Energy Industries Association is talking about a class action. Any savings the government hoped to make will end up in the pockets of the lawyers, at the expense of those who foolishly trusted the legislation.

This new state government is just as inept as the old one.

For once I agree with a Greens politician:

The Greens MP John Kaye said the Coalition had supported the introduction of the 60 ¢ tariff when the scheme was introduced: ''Never again will households or the clean energy industry trust even a legislated promise."

 

[Smurf1976]

Add to this the imminent reduction in the REC's multiplier (which effectively amounts to an increase in the installation cost of a solar power system) and there's going to be more than a few solar installers going broke pretty soon.

On the positive side, there might be a few solar panels going cheap for those looking to buy some un-subsidised equipment.

 

[Lantern]

I agree many companies will be going broke, and many many jobs lost. What happens to their thousands of customers warranties should any panels or inverters fail.

 

[sptrawler]

Quite funny a mate was doing the course last week at t.a.f.e when someone came into the class and said a refund was available for the course. lol
Also in the weekend paper Alannah Mactiernan was reported to be a director of a solar instalation company oh, shock horror, oh suprise, suprise.

 

[Lantern]

This goes a lot deeper than the 20c cut.

Here is an email received by a friend of mine and which he posted on the Whirlpool forum.

Dear Premier and Minister,
I am writing to you to express my outrage about the NSW's Government's announcement (5pm Friday 13 May) to legislate retroactively to drastically reduce the 60c solar feed-in tariff which was guaranteed to people investing in rooftop solar panels.

This is unprecedented and morally repugnant retroactive legislation which will destroy your opportunity to rebuild NSW in its infancy and permanently damage trust in Australian government. Never before have so many decent citizens who have acted in good faith in response to government incentive and encouragement been disenfranchised by retrospective legislation

In 2010, the NSW government encouraged its citizens to invest in rooftop solar panels to produce electricity and guaranteed a 60c per kWhr return until the end of 2016 by enshrining it in legislation.
Over 120,000 households and businesses have invested large sums ($2500 to $50,000) based on this legally binding promise. Regional areas have had significantly higher take-up than city dwellers because of larger roofs and more sun.

Now the government proposes to welsh on that contract.

Retrospective legislation is an anathema to rule of law and fatally undermines public trust in government. It is almost unheard of in western democracies because rule of law is what distinguishes us from dictatorships and anarchy.

Indeed, even the incompetent previous Labor government carefully, if barely, avoided it while trampling on other established democratic norms (Bangaroo, pro-roguing Parliament etc).

In most western democracies (including the US, Canada and Europe) the constitution or bill of rights bans retroactive legislation outright and the handful of Australian cases involves clear and exceptional moral wrongdoing by the disadvantaged party (WW2 War Crimes and bottom of the harbour schemes).
Never before have so many people who have acted in good faith in response to government incentive and encouragement been disenfranchised by retrospective legislation. This is no loophole that needs to be closed – it is a public good that was explicitly encouraged and a legal incentive by the previous NSW government with the support of the Liberal Party.

Punishing so many good people for doing exactly what the government asked is morally foul. Once the retrospective legislation genie is let out of the bottle
how can anyone trust a NSW government legislated commitment again?

Refusal to honour a financial commitment enshrined in law is a serious sovereign default equivalent to cutting returns to government bondholders such as is being contemplated in basket case economies like Greece. Greece has 100s of billions of Euros in debt and is still doing everything to avoid default yet this NSW government is willing to risk default to save about one thousandth of this amount. In many ways this sovereign default will be worse than that of Iceland or likely for Greece because those defaults will mainly impact large foreign institutions not the very households that elected the government.

Your new government wants to rebuild NSW after the disaster of the Labor years, but if this decision is implemented it means no one will be safe to invest based on a NSW government promise again. Say goodbye to private infrastructure investment and NSW credit rating.
The damage to sovereign risk perceptions will not be limited to NSW but will infect the whole country, especially when combined with the damage done by the overnight withdrawal of the home insulation scheme, the botched handling of the mining tax and the undemocratic behaviour of the previous NSW government .

This issue is not about solar panels anymore, nor is it about green issues, nor balancing the budget, it is about preventing an extreme abuse of government power and preserving NSW reputation as a safe, stable place to invest and do business.

Please withdraw this unprecedented and morally foul retrospective
legislation.

 

[drsmith]

In terms of mismanagement and government idiological stupidity, solar panels will dwarf pink batts.

The ultimate mess to clean up will be huge.

 

[zzaaxxss3401]

I just thought of this great idea;

you buy a huge boat, and layer it with Solar Panels,
they you sail it to the SouthPole for 6 months of sunlight, then once that is done,
you sail it to the NorthPole for 6 more months of light,

You're DOUBLING your profit!!

:jump:

How long is your power cable back to the grid?

 

[Lantern]

Very interesting read here.

http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/solar-policy-ill-repute?
utm_source=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign= C
limate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily

They can't have it both ways.

 

[Calliope]

In terms of mismanagement and government idiological stupidity, solar panels will dwarf pink batts.

The ultimate mess to clean up will be huge.

Yes, the stupidity was to offer to buy back electricity produced by subsidised Solar Systems for more than it was worth, and to expect other consumers to pay for this buyback.

When I had my system installed I knew that it was too good to be true, when my neighbors were boasting about how much money they were making.

 

[nunthewiser]

i have had to have the hot water booster on for 2 days now as it is very overcast and raining.

solar power.....pffft

 

[pixel]

i have had to have the hot water booster on for 2 days now as it is very overcast and raining.

solar power.....pffft

Take your silly headgear off, nunnie, and let your halo shine

If your water is too cold after just two days of overcast skies, your tank either has a lousy insulation, or it's too small for your cloister's needs.

If all else fails, take the matter up with your Boss

 

[noco]

I have a question for the expert techo's.

With Solar power, is it possible to develope stray currents which could cause electrolysis on copper or brass water fittings?
I believe water in circular motion as in hot water systems coils can attract these stray currents and cause the removal of the zinc content in brass.

 

[Smurf1976]

I have a question for the expert techo's.

With Solar power, is it possible to develope stray currents which could cause electrolysis on copper or brass water fittings?
I believe water in circular motion as in hot water systems coils can attract these stray currents and cause the removal of the zinc content in brass.

The panels produce DC and as such it is not impossible that stray currents could lead to corrosion. That said, both poles are wired directly to the inverter (ie the roof or other metallic parts of the building are not used to provide a return current path) so I would say that you are highly unlikely to experience an acutal problem with corrosion.

I'd personally be more worried about electronic appliances which collectively draw significant DC loads. Depending on the design of their power supply electronics, it's certainly not impossible that you end up eating the water pipes, earth stake, hot water heater etc (it's unlikely, but not unknown for this to happen).

For any DC system with everything hard wired it should be OK. But if the earth or something else other than a cable is used as a return current path then corrosion is not only possible, it is likely. Solar PV systems aren't wired that way however.

In terms of corrosion generally, the main thing you should be worried about around the house is usually the hot water cylinder. If you have a vitreous enamel ("glas") lined cylinder (which is what the major brands like Rheem, Dux etc are) then either you replace the sacrificial anode before it wears out (check at least every 5 years, more often in areas with poor water quality). If not replaced then the tank rusts and pretty soon you end up with a flood...

 

[Pager]

Old thread but the cost of solar has fallen considerably, maybe not much feed in terrif any more but got quoted $3200 (after govt rebate) today for a 2KW system from a reputable company here in Sydney, it will produce they say about half my average usage each quarter and the savings will mean I will pay for the system in about 4 years, not a bad return when you think about it.

It would mean 8 x 250 watt Multi-Crystalline Panels and an upgradable inverter, quote was full installation and all costs and paperwork (not sure whats involved) and it takes 4 to 6 weeks from signing up.

so anyone out there got solar and has it been worth it ?.

 

[Pager]

Whoops, i see there is a thread already, please delete or move

Sorry

 

[Lantern]

Yes, I got on that 60C rebate and since the day it went in I have not paid any bills. The 60C not only covers all my electricity the excess has paid all my rates, water rates and house insurance, and will do until 1/1/17

We had two employees who borrowed the $$ to go to the max 10kW and their extra also pays their interest.

 

[sptrawler]

W.A have just dropped the feed in tarrif from 40c to 20c. That will make a few gag.

 

[drsmith]

W.A have just dropped the feed in tarrif from 40c to 20c. That will make a few gag.

I've commented on this in the other solar panel thread. The biggest problem will be for those who installed large systems with the associated large upfront system cost and impact on payback period. There has been much commentary on this on ABC 720 this morning.

The state government is essentially using the force majeure clause in the terms and conditions to make the change. A legal angle for any challenge may be earlier correspondence to scheme participants from public utilities such as Synergy that advises 40c for the full 10 years without further qualification (an absence of the usual small print disclaimers on the same document indicating risks otherwise).

No one with solar panels can trust this government in relation to feed in tariffs into the future. They are essentially not worth the paper they are written on.

 

[Joules MM1]

https://twitter.com/i/moments/981923058893115392

Smartflower is a smart solar panel that produces 40% more energy than regular solar panels. It folds itself up into its base at night and blossoms during the day. Would you plant this flower in your yard?