Whale wars
- Thread starter cuttlefish
- Start date
It doesn't really matter what the Australian Government thinks. The fact is the territory is just a claim.
lukeaye said:
Why should they?
And your opinion is informed and unbiased? I haven't paid much attention to this thread, but your posts here certainly don't come off that way at a glance. You seem to be arguing purely by emotion.
Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
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What does whale taste like to eat?
There must be many different ways of preparing it and it would probably depend on where on the whale one was eating from.
I'd imagine its somewhere between a pork and fish taste.
gg
There must be many different ways of preparing it and it would probably depend on where on the whale one was eating from.
I'd imagine its somewhere between a pork and fish taste.
gg
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I must say, the hypocrisy from the Japanese and their hunting whales for 'scientific research' annoys me, but based on basically zero evidence from this thread and getting the good oil from Nioka on the situation, it would appear that this hypocrisy only exists because of unreasonable condemnation imo.
Like beef if prepared in a way to mask the whale oil aspect. Savoury mince and you would think beef. It is a red meat, nothing like fish or chicken.
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Whale tacos anyone?
Ato
Ato is credit to team
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Thanks to Macquack & IFocus for providing me with two stunning examples of logical fallacies for usage. Cheers guys!
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NZ, Australia research whales to challenge Japan
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/media/in_the_news.php?article=779
Ato, enjoy your "Special Promotion Scientific" whale burgers while they last.
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/media/in_the_news.php?article=779
Ato, enjoy your "Special Promotion Scientific" whale burgers while they last.
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Just like you got the good oil (and nicotine, tar, etc.) from the tobacco companies?
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My understanding of the situation is this:
At the end of WW2 the Americans encouraged and gave a boost to large scale Japanese whaling to feed the starving population they were now responsible for.
As a result, modern Japanese don't particularly want to eat whale meat. It's the "povo" food their grandparents had to eat after losing a war.
The commercial whaling in Japan is ongoing due to a small vocal minority lobbying for their own industry.
The vast majority of Japanese are unaware that the world feels so strongly about their whaling activities because the subject doesn't get any air/discussion time.
What does get airtime are "terrorist" activities in international waters towards ships bearing their national flag.
This turns their opinion in to one of national pride and the preservation of whales no longer factors in.
This perspective came secondhand from a Japanese person I was talking to.
If an Indian flagged vessel took these same actions towards an Australian flagged ship carrying cows because they don't believe we should be eating beef, I know I would rile up along national lines and disregard the actual discussion.
The Australian Antarctic Territory is not internationally recognised.
Wikipedia
Only the UK, NZ, France, and Norway recognise it. They also have claimed territory in Anarctica. The Southern Whale Sanctuary which extends from this unrecognised territory is also not internationally recognised which means all these shenanigans are (to the international community at large) occuring in
international waters.
The Japanese believe that whales can be consumed just like any other renewable resource and that our objections are purely idealogical.
Wikipedia
"Japan carries out its whaling in two areas: the North-West Pacific Ocean (JARPN II) and the Antarctic Ocean (JARPA) Southern Hemisphere catch. The 2007/08 JARPA mission had a quota of 900 minke whales and 50 fin whales."
American Cetacean Society
"It is thought that minke populations have increased as they started to eat the food that was previously eaten by the now-depleted large whale species. The present population worldwide is believed to be over a millions animals."
American Cetacean Society
"Precise estimates are unavailable today, but it is thought that present populations are about 40,000 in the northern hemisphere and 15,000-20,000 in the southern hemisphere, a small percentage of the original population levels."
Their argument isn't completely without merit and they are largely correct in saying that we are against whaling because we love them as beautiful creatures. Even if it were proven that their hunting is sustainable the same people against it now would most likely still be against whaling. Maybe the argument should be that they have to kill whales in a humane way. I'm sure finding a humane way to kill a 15tonne "fish" will take the economic viability out of it.
In 2007 Japan suspended their hunting of Humpback whales due to political pressure from the IWC and, I like to believe, the Australian government and public.
BBC
In light of that, I get p'd off when these "terrorists" (my opinion) use these polarising methods to protect whales which galvanises the Japanese public to support their operations more than if it were just political and grass roots pressure.
The Ady Gil cost $2.5 million dollars to construct.
Wikipedia
That's not including the costs (fuel, food, equipment, maintenance) with getting the Ady Gil and the mothership all the way down to Antarctica.
How much time on Japanese TV could that have bought to run messages outlining why the rest of the world is against whaling?
Maybe full page ads in newspapers. Maybe pay for lobbyists within the Japanese political system to increase pressure on the government.
What's the end goal of the SSCS? Sure they can say they save 100ish whales from the Japanese total quota but does this mean they plan on doing this every year forever? At no point have their actions made the Japanese think about stopping whaling. If anything it just seems to makes them more
determined to do it.
To me the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society have admirable goals but arrogant and self-serving methods. In my mind, they don't just want to save whales. They want to be the knight in shining armour going off to fight evil. Grassroot and educational programs just aren't as cool.
They even have their own reality show. Whale Wars!
Whale Wars
To me that just sounds like the usual quest for glory that anything has when suffixed by the word "War". It says to me that they view the Japanese as an enemy and any notion of negotiation and compromise has ended. Your enemy's opinion no longer counts and only by vanquishing them can "right"
prevail.
I am vehemently against whaling. I think that there are enough animals on the planet that are more sustainably eaten that we can afford to leave the whales there for our conscience and aesthetic pleasure. Whales are incredibly intelligent and majestically beautiful and I think deserve to share
the world with us (I do feel that most other animals are here for my dining pleasure).
I would prefer to see the massive amounts of money used by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society every year to "terrorise" Japanese whaling vessels put to less polarising methods. Methods that have proven to have more effect as in the case with humpback whales.
- Tony
At the end of WW2 the Americans encouraged and gave a boost to large scale Japanese whaling to feed the starving population they were now responsible for.
As a result, modern Japanese don't particularly want to eat whale meat. It's the "povo" food their grandparents had to eat after losing a war.
The commercial whaling in Japan is ongoing due to a small vocal minority lobbying for their own industry.
The vast majority of Japanese are unaware that the world feels so strongly about their whaling activities because the subject doesn't get any air/discussion time.
What does get airtime are "terrorist" activities in international waters towards ships bearing their national flag.
This turns their opinion in to one of national pride and the preservation of whales no longer factors in.
This perspective came secondhand from a Japanese person I was talking to.
If an Indian flagged vessel took these same actions towards an Australian flagged ship carrying cows because they don't believe we should be eating beef, I know I would rile up along national lines and disregard the actual discussion.
The Australian Antarctic Territory is not internationally recognised.
Wikipedia
Only the UK, NZ, France, and Norway recognise it. They also have claimed territory in Anarctica. The Southern Whale Sanctuary which extends from this unrecognised territory is also not internationally recognised which means all these shenanigans are (to the international community at large) occuring in
international waters.
The Japanese believe that whales can be consumed just like any other renewable resource and that our objections are purely idealogical.
Wikipedia
"Japan carries out its whaling in two areas: the North-West Pacific Ocean (JARPN II) and the Antarctic Ocean (JARPA) Southern Hemisphere catch. The 2007/08 JARPA mission had a quota of 900 minke whales and 50 fin whales."
American Cetacean Society
"It is thought that minke populations have increased as they started to eat the food that was previously eaten by the now-depleted large whale species. The present population worldwide is believed to be over a millions animals."
American Cetacean Society
"Precise estimates are unavailable today, but it is thought that present populations are about 40,000 in the northern hemisphere and 15,000-20,000 in the southern hemisphere, a small percentage of the original population levels."
Their argument isn't completely without merit and they are largely correct in saying that we are against whaling because we love them as beautiful creatures. Even if it were proven that their hunting is sustainable the same people against it now would most likely still be against whaling. Maybe the argument should be that they have to kill whales in a humane way. I'm sure finding a humane way to kill a 15tonne "fish" will take the economic viability out of it.
In 2007 Japan suspended their hunting of Humpback whales due to political pressure from the IWC and, I like to believe, the Australian government and public.
BBC
In light of that, I get p'd off when these "terrorists" (my opinion) use these polarising methods to protect whales which galvanises the Japanese public to support their operations more than if it were just political and grass roots pressure.
The Ady Gil cost $2.5 million dollars to construct.
Wikipedia
That's not including the costs (fuel, food, equipment, maintenance) with getting the Ady Gil and the mothership all the way down to Antarctica.
How much time on Japanese TV could that have bought to run messages outlining why the rest of the world is against whaling?
Maybe full page ads in newspapers. Maybe pay for lobbyists within the Japanese political system to increase pressure on the government.
What's the end goal of the SSCS? Sure they can say they save 100ish whales from the Japanese total quota but does this mean they plan on doing this every year forever? At no point have their actions made the Japanese think about stopping whaling. If anything it just seems to makes them more
determined to do it.
To me the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society have admirable goals but arrogant and self-serving methods. In my mind, they don't just want to save whales. They want to be the knight in shining armour going off to fight evil. Grassroot and educational programs just aren't as cool.
They even have their own reality show. Whale Wars!
Whale Wars
To me that just sounds like the usual quest for glory that anything has when suffixed by the word "War". It says to me that they view the Japanese as an enemy and any notion of negotiation and compromise has ended. Your enemy's opinion no longer counts and only by vanquishing them can "right"
prevail.
I am vehemently against whaling. I think that there are enough animals on the planet that are more sustainably eaten that we can afford to leave the whales there for our conscience and aesthetic pleasure. Whales are incredibly intelligent and majestically beautiful and I think deserve to share
the world with us (I do feel that most other animals are here for my dining pleasure).
I would prefer to see the massive amounts of money used by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society every year to "terrorise" Japanese whaling vessels put to less polarising methods. Methods that have proven to have more effect as in the case with humpback whales.
- Tony
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Perhaps the best response yet.
Save the whaling!
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Save the planet..........hang on expanding population means we are screwed........whaling matters little...........
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This is getting to be entertaining now. Yet another boating crash.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...anese-harpooners/story-e6frfku0-1225827440005
"The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society said the harpoon ship Yushin Maru No. 3 collided with the Bob Barker during a clash off Cape Denley in Australian Antarctic waters, tearing a one metre deep gash above the waterline."
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...anese-harpooners/story-e6frfku0-1225827440005
"The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society said the harpoon ship Yushin Maru No. 3 collided with the Bob Barker during a clash off Cape Denley in Australian Antarctic waters, tearing a one metre deep gash above the waterline."
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from the same link as above
""Because the whalers got away basically scot-free with the outrageous sinking of the Ady Gil, they now apparently think they can do whatever they want and they appear to have no qualms about endangering Sea Shepherd crew," he said."
So why is it ok for this guy to endanger the japs but he then gets upset when his guys are endangered?
""Because the whalers got away basically scot-free with the outrageous sinking of the Ady Gil, they now apparently think they can do whatever they want and they appear to have no qualms about endangering Sea Shepherd crew," he said."
So why is it ok for this guy to endanger the japs but he then gets upset when his guys are endangered?
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Gordon the Japanese whalers wear black hats (bad guys) and the whaling protesters wear white hats (good guys)
That means the guys with white hats can do what ever they frigging well like and its OK.
You seem to have not noticed the bit at the bottom of the article that points out the Japanese government whaling corporation who are low life knuckle dragging scum bags (read populist polys who would sell their Grandmothers to the glue factory)are quote
Research? really.....................lower the battering rams white hats.........
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The actual whaling is almost secondary in this story. One can interpretate legalities into many different ways. That's why laws are rewritten many times over.
In almost any other case, if a foreigner or anyone else came to australia and started telling us how we should act towards a certain subject we'd most likey as a whole tell them to piss off. The hollywood antics of this guy creates sensationalism. The press picks it up, we read it, he finds out he's attaining near stardom status and then pushes the buttons even further to stoke his ego.
