Legalising Marijuana

[wayneL]

So why legalise something just as dangerous as alcohol, whether its fast or slow, they are still dangering other peoples lives.

Thats the bottom line.

Poor kids, if the parents arent pissed as parrots, they are as stoned as stunned mullets.

Nah keep it illegal so they have to pay top dollar for it - buggar em and the ones supplying it can cop it just as sweet when they get caught.

You missed my point.

The point is that I reckon it is less dangerous than alcohol... and they're already there anyway.

Harry Chapin was singing about it 30 years ago.

It should be against the law to drive stoned, just like driving pissed, but that is a separate issue to the legality of cannabis generally.

There is no scientific reason to keep it illegal when compared to alcohol.

 

[moXJO]

Nooo way...

I grew up in a suburb where every second house was a pot dealer. Teenage years, all my friends from that area were stoners. At first use it seems fine but most of those friends ended up schizophrenic or committed suicide. In fact suicide rate seems very high. One mate (who was a heavy user) stabbed, then tried to burn down his next door neighbor’s house. He was later diagnosed with schizophrenia and locked in a mental ward for a few months. Then let back out and he tried to kill a cop went back in then let back out a few months later again. I've seen people that seemed really positive end up necking themselves, and a lot of wasted talent. Note: the majority did not drink alcohol either and were purely stoners
I'm not sure if it was the transition to hydro during the late 80's to early 90's. Back then people didn’t flush the plants with water for 2 weeks, so all those chemicals were still in the buds. Could have also been the high levels of THC associated with skunk or northern lights .

The happy stoner hippy is also a BS myth. The old stoners are more likely to have an extremely short temper, and in my experience get physical when they fly off in a rage.
Our mental health over here is atrocious, and the cost would blow out if pot were legally availably. A lot of it gets swept under the carpet.
Anyone who thinks pot is not as bad as alcohol is fooling themselves. It causes a lot of problems, both personal and social.
Why add another problem? Pot use has been slowly tapering off for years. And the current generation views it as the loser’s drug. E is the drug of choice now.

It's already legal to a degree anyway for personal use. If you get caught its (was) a $30 fine for a small amount.

 

[GumbyLearner]

 

[wayneL]

Nooo way...

I grew up in a suburb where every second house was a pot dealer. Teenage years, all my friends from that area were stoners. At first use it seems fine but most of those friends ended up schizophrenic or committed suicide. In fact suicide rate seems very high. One mate (who was a heavy user) stabbed, then tried to burn down his next door neighbor’s house. He was later diagnosed with schizophrenia and locked in a mental ward for a few months. Then let back out and he tried to kill a cop went back in then let back out a few months later again. I've seen people that seemed really positive end up necking themselves, and a lot of wasted talent. Note: the majority did not drink alcohol either and were purely stoners
I'm not sure if it was the transition to hydro during the late 80's to early 90's. Back then people didn’t flush the plants with water for 2 weeks, so all those chemicals were still in the buds. Could have also been the high levels of THC associated with skunk or northern lights .

The happy stoner hippy is also a BS myth. The old stoners are more likely to have an extremely short temper, and in my experience get physical when they fly off in a rage.
Our mental health over here is atrocious, and the cost would blow out if pot were legally availably. A lot of it gets swept under the carpet.
Anyone who thinks pot is not as bad as alcohol is fooling themselves. It causes a lot of problems, both personal and social.
Why add another problem? Pot use has been slowly tapering off for years. And the current generation views it as the loser’s drug. E is the drug of choice now.

It's already legal to a degree anyway for personal use. If you get caught its (was) a $30 fine for a small amount.

Mo

I could equally mount a similar case against sugar, or red cordial, or alcohol, or McDonald's hamburgers.

Like anything, overuse is a problem, but moderate use isn't.

 

[Tink]

Excellent post moXJO

So much for Australia being the 'lucky country' with these people needing these uppers..sheesh

Very sad actually...

 

[Fishbulb]

Nooo way...

I grew up in a suburb where every second house was a pot dealer. Teenage years, all my friends from that area were stoners. At first use it seems fine but most of those friends ended up schizophrenic or committed suicide. In fact suicide rate seems very high. One mate (who was a heavy user) stabbed, then tried to burn down his next door neighbor’s house. He was later diagnosed with schizophrenia and locked in a mental ward for a few months. Then let back out and he tried to kill a cop went back in then let back out a few months later again. I've seen people that seemed really positive end up necking themselves, and a lot of wasted talent. Note: the majority did not drink alcohol either and were purely stoners
I'm not sure if it was the transition to hydro during the late 80's to early 90's. Back then people didn’t flush the plants with water for 2 weeks, so all those chemicals were still in the buds. Could have also been the high levels of THC associated with skunk or northern lights .

The happy stoner hippy is also a BS myth. The old stoners are more likely to have an extremely short temper, and in my experience get physical when they fly off in a rage.
Our mental health over here is atrocious, and the cost would blow out if pot were legally availably. A lot of it gets swept under the carpet.
Anyone who thinks pot is not as bad as alcohol is fooling themselves. It causes a lot of problems, both personal and social.
Why add another problem? Pot use has been slowly tapering off for years. And the current generation views it as the loser’s drug. E is the drug of choice now.

It's already legal to a degree anyway for personal use. If you get caught its (was) a $30 fine for a small amount.

Hey I don't smoke weed and I haven't smoked anything whatsoever for going on thirty years so I don't have an agenda here. I couldn't care less if it was legalised or not. But what you've written here is overstatement and emotion.

It's a known "scientific fact" - note the word scientific, that schizophrenia in pot users triggers a susceptibility to the disease, and does not cause it. Also, the undeveloped brain is at risk and not a mature brain. Under eighteens shouldn't be drinking or smoking weed anyway. But they do, and would continue to do so whether legal or not.

Alcohol is by far the more physically damaging substance in any way one would look at it; no question. Get some facts.

Old stoners flying off the handle? Maybe in Reservoir or Broady

 

[moXJO]

Mo

I could equally mount a similar case against sugar, or red cordial, or alcohol, or McDonald's hamburgers.

Like anything, overuse is a problem, but moderate use isn't.

And I argue all of the above will be overused when Australia gets the munchies from legalized marijuana

Moderate use and marijuana do not go hand in hand. You need more and more each time to get the high. Why legalize and bring back a problem that is on the way out with this generation. The other thing is that kids in high school are more inclined to use it. So there is still a shortfall in what to do there.
Opening up the minefield of further health and mental associated problems that come with legalizing pot is worse then a few stoners copping a fine.

There was a law that allowed so many plants per backyard a while back. That ended when hydro came in (I think, been a while). All they need to do is decriminalize 5 or so plants (not hydro) per backyard for personal use. How about a growers permit to raise taxes. That way the stoners can keep getting stoned without too many taking it up on the national level. Also combats the illicit drug trade if they don't have to go to the local dealer themselves. I'm sure it will still be abused in some way though.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1340350.htm

Australians' drug use in decline
A national survey of drug use has found most drug usage is declining.

The strongest falls reported in the National Drug Strategy Household Survey are in the number of people smoking tobacco and marijuana.

The questionnaire survey of 30,000 Australians by the Institute of Health and Welfare says one in five Australians still smoke tobacco.

Alcohol usage remains stable, with one in 10 Australians risking their long-term health by drinking above safe levels.

Heroin use is also stable at 0.2 per cent.

Report co-author Amber Summerill says ecstasy is moving against the trends.

"There's been a slight increase in recent ecstasy use from 2.9 per cent to 3.4 per cent, but generally for any illicit there's been a decline," she said.

People aged between 20 and 29 are the biggest drug users.

 

[moXJO]

Hey I don't smoke weed and I haven't smoked anything whatsoever for going on thirty years so I don't have an agenda here. I couldn't care less if it was legalised or not. But what you've written here is overstatement and emotion.

It's a known "scientific fact" - note the word scientific, that schizophrenia in pot users triggers a susceptibility to the disease, and does not cause it. Also, the undeveloped brain is at risk and not a mature brain. Under eighteens shouldn't be drinking or smoking weed anyway. But they do, and would continue to do so whether legal or not.

Alcohol is by far the more physically damaging substance in any way one would look at it; no question. Get some facts.

Old stoners flying off the handle? Maybe in Reservoir or Broady

Are you friken kidding me: do a bloody google search, there is too many health problems to list.

 

[wayneL]

Moderate use and marijuana do not go hand in hand. You need more and more each time to get the high.

Same with booze.

Apart from that... nonsense.

BTW, I'm not a user, but used a few times when I was young.

I have friends who still use ( for at least 35 years). No problem that I can see that aren't worse with booze anyway.

 

[Fishbulb]

Are you friken kidding me: do a bloody google search, there is too many health problems to list.

Google? That's your rebuttal? Are you freakin' kiddin' me?

I speak from personal and first hand experience, and from information gathered from the pages of - wait for it! ......................... books.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Nooo way...

Why add another problem?

Exactly! and thanks for sharing a real life "experience".

 

[moXJO]

Same with booze.

Apart from that... nonsense.

BTW, I'm not a user, but used a few times when I was young.

I have friends who still use ( for at least 35 years). No problem that I can see that aren't worse with booze anyway.

So let’s turn a minor problem (in comparison to alcohol and cigarettes) and turn pot national and on par then?

Your right booze is a lot worse and it’s legal.
Cigarettes are a lot worse and they are legal.
Now let’s throw pot in the mix on top of that? Even though use was on the decline. Let’s legalize it and turn it into a bigger problem (just like alcohol and cigarettes) by making it socially acceptable and available on a mass scale.
I do not see the need to legalize it. Australia is not one for using substances in moderation

 

[wayneL]

So let’s turn a minor problem (in comparison to alcohol and cigarettes) and turn pot national and on par then?

Your right booze is a lot worse and it’s legal.
Cigarettes are a lot worse and they are legal.
Now let’s throw pot in the mix on top of that? Even though use was on the decline. Let’s legalize it and turn it into a bigger problem (just like alcohol and cigarettes) by making it socially acceptable and available on a mass scale.
I do not see the need to legalize it. Australia is not one for using substances in moderation

It is already socially acceptable and available on a mass scale.

 

[nunthewiser]

. Australia is not one for using substances in moderation

Speak for yourself , Not for me .

 

[moXJO]

It is already socially acceptable and available on a mass scale.

How many people do you know that currently abuse alcohol and cigarettes I bet lots and lots? Even though we know it's really bad for us and bad socially. Teenagers abuse it, and then when they step out of school there it is legally to abuse. And because it’s legal its everywhere

Young also abuse the weed through school. But pot users seem to taper out in their late 20's for various reasons. Maybe one of the reasons is that it is a pain in the **** to get, and the stigma of being a 30yo pot smoker. I also question any benefits of making it legal.
Decriminalize it to a certain degree, so that current users can grow their own and don't have to go to dealers. Heavier fines for hydro. I don't think we need to make any drastic changes though.
Most dealers sell to the kids (or are kids) so legalizing it is still missing out on the supposed benefits of taking dealers out of the equation.

 

[wayneL]

Mo et al

There is a bit of an unbridgeable gap between the two views. I can't see the politicians changing the status quo that much, so the point is probably moot anyway.

But a fair exchange of views to mull over.

Cheers

 

[Happy]

Nooo way...

.... At first use it seems fine but most of those friends ended up schizophrenic or committed suicide. In fact suicide rate seems very high. One mate (who was a heavy user) stabbed, then tried to burn down his next door neighbor’s house. He was later diagnosed with schizophrenia and locked in a mental ward for a few months. Then let back out and he tried to kill a cop went back in then let back out a few months later again. I've seen people that seemed really positive end up necking themselves, and a lot of wasted talent. Note: the majority did not drink alcohol either and were purely stoners
...

It's already legal to a degree anyway for personal use. If you get caught its (was) a $30 fine for a small amount.

This is not happy drug, after high there is low and lows get deeper.
Mental people should be locked up, why should I be in danger of some psycho-pot.
If alcoholics could be locked up the better.

Central Australia looks like nice place, lock them up there givem what they want and lets go with preparations for mass immigrations should water move up another foot or two.

 

[awg]

I have mixed views on MJ legalisation

One thing I am unequivocal about is that Hemp should be more widely utilised

It has so many uses for fibre, fuel, oil, protein, is a weed suppressant, soil conditioner etc etc.

I think the concerns over its drug use has discouraged this most versatile plants useage and development for other purposes.

(I realise the drug cultivars are not identical to the industrial cultivars.)

There has recently been de-facto legalisation in California, for so-called "medicinal" uses

 

[Kremmen]

Socially, economically, logically it should be legal.

It is more useful and far less dangerous than drugs that are legal, alcohol and tobacco. Its prohibition is huge a waste of money and legalising it would generate decent tax revenue. Legalised, it would direct money to the government, instead of to criminals. Crims would get poorer, while everyone else would pay less tax or get better government services. There have been plenty of analyses of these issues, especially the economic aspects.

There has been some worthwhile study of those who have had serious mental problems after using marijuana, which has shown that such people have a deficiency in certain brain chemical control. So, yes, some individuals shouldn't consume marijuana, and this can be medically tested. Just because some people can't cope with something is no reason to prevent the rest of us.

The only people who have any reason to support illegality of pot are those who don't believe in personal freedom. The same kind of people who believe in legislating what we are allowed to do in the bedroom. Unfortunately, that includes most politicians, because they are intrinsically authoritarian and frequently trying to exert control over us (e.g. the plan to censor the internet) instead of enabling individuals to live a happy, fulfilled, life and make their own decisions.

 

[derty]

I can't see the politicians changing the status quo that much, so the point is probably moot anyway.

Spot on wayne - to legalise dope in this day and age would be political suicide. It's just not going to happen.

Before it would even be considered you would need a very cheap way of testing drivers. There are saliva tests, though these probably no way cheap enough yet for common widespread use. This coupled with the fact that you will test positive for a significant time following the cessation of any physical effects.

As for the effects on society and the individual, like with any drug, legal or otherwise, the level of use and general effect of daily life is a wide spectrum.

I was a heavy dope smoker during my mid to late teens and while it was fun it didn't really do me any favours. Motivation was reduced, certainly my ability to perform more complicated mathematical problems was compromised while stoned (which effected my homework) and I generally wasted a lot of time being a stoner. I grew bored of smoking and my use declined. Went to uni and blitzed it and now live a highly productive professional life. I very occasionally and very socially have a toot these days.

Though many stories are not as bright, quite a few friends remained heavy to moderate users. Most of them are employed full time, none of them really hit their full potential IMHO. One person I know had a psychotic episode and never used again and has not had a relapse since. Others have been treated for depression though the frequency of depression in society makes it hard to link this to dope use.

At the end of the day I don't think legalising it will provide any benefits to society above the current status. It may provide some revenue for the govt and would remove the requirement to get the drug from dealers and reduce the exposure of users to heavier drugs. Decriminalisation of use is a much better solution.

If you asked any policeman which drug they would prefer removed form society, alcohol or marijuana. You wouldn't find one who would chose dope.

And finally, here is a little clip to reinforce the fears of those that seem to think that there is a dope crazed psycho lurking behind every corner..