Victorian Politics

[Smurf1976]

Only in Australia could the lack of government forethought – added to the intractable self-interest of gas exporters – have led to this outcome

The sad thing is just how long ago it was known. Among others:

There's a study by a former SA government-owned utility back in 1980 which noted the future gas shortage in SE Australia generally.

It's mentioned in the original 1979 planning report for the controversial and never built project in Tasmania commonly (but incorrectly) known as the Franklin Dam.

It's also in the 1977 documents in regard to Loy Yang power station (coal) in Victoria which was approved in that year.

Early-1970's negotiations between AGL, BHP and Esso failed to progress to a satisfactory conclusion primarily due to the limited nature of known gas reserves in Victoria. AGL wanted to buy gas and pipe it to Sydney but Esso considered it scarce enough that its future value would increase as a result, and the then Victorian government also wasn't at all keen albeit having no legal authority to stop it (but they could certainly make it hard.....).

Circa 1980 the then Victorian government (Liberal) had proposed to ban the use of gas for specific applications. That was to include a ban on new gas-fired power stations and swimming pool heaters, the reasoning being they had the potential to consumer very large volumes of gas and could instead easily use other fuels, thus conserving gas for more important uses.

Gough Whitlam was also on about it when he was PM.

All of that's over 40 years ago, in some cases over 50 years. Because the broad extent of reserves was known back then and it wasn't rocket science to realise they weren't adequate for the forecast consumption.

More recently, very early 2000's, the issue was raised again in the context of the official hearings into the then proposed Basslink electricity interconnection. Opponents of Basslink argued for the use of gas on both sides of Bass Strait instead, advocates of Basslink pointed out the flaw of that argument with the lack of adequate reserves.

Also more recently are a countless string of reports from AEMO, CSIRO and others government departments as well as Esso themselves regarding gas in general, the adequacy of reserves and so on.

Add that all up and for government to claim they didn't know would amount to acknowledging a mind blowing level of ignorance. All the above is in the public domain after all, the reports are literally available online for the new ones and in in assorted public libraries for the 1970's and 80's work. This isn't secret.

 

[Knobby22]

Pesutto hasn't made the payment and bankruptcy is the next step. I donated to the go fund me page in which over $200,000 has been raised.
Can't believe it.
He put the Libs 10 points in front and now Moira with backing is going to remove him.
Brad Batten is failing and may be removed from the leadership.

Libs have to think, are they the party of Menzies? Middle Australian aspirational?
Or the party of Murdoch a right wing populist concerned with constituencies that favour his commercial interests.

 

[farmerge]

Pesutto hasn't made the payment and bankruptcy is the next step. I donated to the go fund me page in which over $200,000 has been raised.
Can't believe it.
He put the Libs 10 points in front and now Moira with backing is going to remove him.
Brad Batten is failing and may be removed from the leadership.

Libs have to think, are they the party of Menzies? Middle Australian aspirational?
Or the party of Murdoch a right wing populist concerned with constituencies that favour his commercial interests.

Libs consider themselves born to rule but apparently not born to lead.

 

[mullokintyre]

Pesutto hasn't made the payment and bankruptcy is the next step. I donated to the go fund me page in which over $200,000 has been raised.
Can't believe it.
He put the Libs 10 points in front and now Moira with backing is going to remove him.
Brad Batten is failing and may be removed from the leadership.

Libs have to think, are they the party of Menzies? Middle Australian aspirational?
Or the party of Murdoch a right wing populist concerned with constituencies that favour his commercial interests.

The Liberal Elite have rescued Pesutto from Bankruptcy, so there is no need for a by election.
I doubt it will make much difference, judging by the responses of Liberal members, he will lose at the next election.
According to the AFR , Liberal membership has plummeted by some 40%.
In this morning Australia, Jeff Kennet does a rebuttal on a brutal piece by J Albrechsten on the Pesutto affair.
There are probably about 300 separate comments to the article , 95% of them critical of Kennet's continued support for Pesutto, as well as the heaped criticism on the old boys network of blue bloods and toffs.
Out of touch, out of ideas, and continuing to be out of government.

Mick

 

[Knobby22]

The Liberal Elite have rescued Pesutto from Bankruptcy, so there is no need for a by election.
I doubt it will make much difference, judging by the responses of Liberal members, he will lose at the next election.
According to the AFR , Liberal membership has plummeted by some 40%.
In this morning Australia, Jeff Kennet does a rebuttal on a brutal piece by J Albrechsten on the Pesutto affair.
There are probably about 300 separate comments to the article , 95% of them critical of Kennet's continued support for Pesutto, as well as the heaped criticism on the old boys network of blue bloods and toffs.
Out of touch, out of ideas, and continuing to be out of government.

Mick

You think hey would learn something from the federal election. It's just beyond stupid.

In the mean time, according to the Age's Chip Le Grand, the Allan government can still abandon the rail folly and lose only $3 billion ( the contract allows this), but if they don't before December, then we are going to go into debt for another $30bil to $50bil. to finish the first section. And you know who had this idea and set this up?? PWC

Can someone start a new party in Victoria? I have a good name, the Sensible Party.

Allan has time to abandon Melbourne’s gargantuan folly. But it’s about to run out

If Labor dumped the Suburban Rail Loop it would waste an obscene quantity of taxpayer dollars. But it’s the right thing to do when you consider the alternative.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Smurf1976]

You think hey would learn something from the federal election. It's just beyond stupid.

I think inability to engage in self reflection and learning is a problem with most political parties.

Liberal seem totally incapable of comprehending why they're not winning elections.

But it'd be equally true to say Labor seems to not comprehend why they've struggled to gain working class votes in recent times, especially men, and that they've been elected to government (federal and states) really only as "less bad" than the clearly incompetent Liberal party not because Australians actually love Labor.

Likewise I suspect the Greens don't grasp why the wheels have come off.

To those on the outside of politics the reasons are blindingly obvious. To those on the inside they seem to just be blind.

 

[farmerge]

I think inability to engage in self reflection and learning is a problem with most political parties.

Liberal seem totally incapable of comprehending why they're not winning elections.

But it'd be equally true to say Labor seems to not comprehend why they've struggled to gain working class votes in recent times, especially men, and that they've been elected to government (federal and states) really only as "less bad" than the clearly incompetent Liberal party not because Australians actually love Labor.

Likewise I suspect the Greens don't grasp why the wheels have come off.

To those on the outside of politics the reasons are blindingly obvious. To those on the inside they seem to just be blind.

When it comes to politicians, there are some exceptions, but generally, blind as a bat when the bleeding obvious is staring them in the face.
don't want to make any changes, because this is how we have done it for yonks.
Generally, my faith in most politicians is down at gutter level.

 

[mullokintyre]

It hardly seems possible, but the Victorian Liberal party are in even more disarray than a month ago.
The resignation of Stuart Smith, its state director, comes after revelations of some highly disparaging remarks made by him about an upper house female MP of his own party.
There are still ructions over the party agreeing pay the costs of its former leader over a failed defamation case.
Its current leader almost invisible, so little does he make a mark in the media.
And all this despite aLabour Government that has had one scandal after another, but still gets elected.
Victorian politics cold not be in a worse shambolic mess than it is already.
So it surprises me little that the Vic Government is doing a Rex Oconnor/Jim Cairns impersonation and seeking loans in China for its grandiose schemes.
Those old enough to remember the Khemlani affair with middle east potentates may seem some similarities between that event and Jacinta Allans efforts to convince China to invest in Victoria.
FromEvil Murdoch press

Mick

 

[Knobby22]

Pesutto got the Libs into a winning position but they had to backstab him as per usual.
The Evil Murdoch press who were complicit should take a good hard look at themselves, especially Peta Credulous.

From the free press.

For Victoria, Allan’s bounce back is anything but healthy

A looming electoral cataclysm for Victorian Labor has been replaced by the likelihood of a fourth consecutive win. It is remarkable and disturbing.

www.theage.com.au

 

[moXJO]

Pesutto got the Libs into a winning position but they had to backstab him as per usual.
The Evil Murdoch press who were complicit should take a good hard look at themselves, especially Peta Credulous.

View attachment 208913
From the free press.

For Victoria, Allan’s bounce back is anything but healthy

A looming electoral cataclysm for Victorian Labor has been replaced by the likelihood of a fourth consecutive win. It is remarkable and disturbing.

www.theage.com.au

Liberals deserve what they get. Too many born to rule types wanting a shot.
Either get behind a common set of goals and lose the sense of self entitlement or fck off out of the party.

 

[mullokintyre]

Pesutto got the Libs into a winning position but they had to backstab him as per usual.
The Evil Murdoch press who were complicit should take a good hard look at themselves, especially Peta Credulous.

View attachment 208913
From the free press.

For Victoria, Allan’s bounce back is anything but healthy

A looming electoral cataclysm for Victorian Labor has been replaced by the likelihood of a fourth consecutive win. It is remarkable and disturbing.

www.theage.com.au

The libs didn't need any help from Credlin or anyone else at Murdoch press.
The screwed it up all by themselves..
Mick

 

[Smurf1976]

Victorian politics cold not be in a worse shambolic mess than it is already.

There's only three real differences between now and a third of a century ago when it comes to Victoria. The state's broke, and was broke back then, but:

1. Back then the opposition was credible. Like him or hate him, Jeff Kennett and the Liberal party were a credible alternative and in due course won a state election.

2. Can't sell the utilities twice. Back then at least the state had physical assets of real value.

3. The premier hasn't sung on national TV yet.

For those who weren't around at the time or somehow missed it, the third one really did happen on what at the time was a widely watched comedy show:



The gag was they got someone in the public domain (politics, sports, media) who wasn't a musician to cover a song by a real musician with a similar name. In this case Joan Kirner covering Joan Jett.

 

[farmerge]

Pesutto got the Libs into a winning position but they had to backstab him as per usual.
The Evil Murdoch press who were complicit should take a good hard look at themselves, especially Peta Credulous.

View attachment 208913
From the free press.

For Victoria, Allan’s bounce back is anything but healthy

A looming electoral cataclysm for Victorian Labor has been replaced by the likelihood of a fourth consecutive win. It is remarkable and disturbing.

www.theage.com.au

Thankfully Victoria over there and not here.
Wait Awhile for me anyday.

 

[moXJO]

At this point we should just sell Victoria to the Chinese. Just so long as they build a wall around it.

 

[mullokintyre]

Jacinta Allen attaching her flag to China.
Why do these announcements for Victorians take place in China one asks?
What concessions has she given them to make it worthwhile for local propaganda?
What the hell is going with these people.
Mick

 

[farmerge]

Jacinta Allen attaching her flag to China.
Why do these announcements for Victorians take place in China one asks?
What concessions has she given them to make it worthwhile for local propaganda?
What the hell is going with these people.
Mick

View attachment 209047

Victoria the newest Chinese State. Foothold given and next more Chinese nationals than authentic Victorians.

 

[Knobby22]

Jacinta Allen attaching her flag to China.
Why do these announcements for Victorians take place in China one asks?
What concessions has she given them to make it worthwhile for local propaganda?
What the hell is going with these people.
Mick

View attachment 209047

She is literally trying to get them to take a share and therefore get funding for the Suburban Rail Loop!
Smells a bit desperate.

 

[IFocus]

Back in the 80s 90s Victoria always had Australia’s highest standards in engineering particularly electrical at least in training/ qualifications was always impressed how good Victorian’s were.
So I am now always puzzled how ordinary the politicians are and it’s both sides…. Strange.

 

[Smurf1976]

Back in the 80s 90s Victoria always had Australia’s highest standards in engineering particularly electrical at least in training/ qualifications was always impressed how good Victorian’s were.
So I am now always puzzled how ordinary the politicians are and it’s both sides…. Strange.

The broad shift from hard technical competency to "soft skills" is what it comes down to.

That's permeated pretty much the whole of society at this point.

It's only a matter of time until it results in a monumental disaster in my view, only real question is about the details of what happens, when and where.

 

[sptrawler]

Back in the 80s 90s Victoria always had Australia’s highest standards in engineering particularly electrical at least in training/ qualifications was always impressed how good Victorian’s were.
So I am now always puzzled how ordinary the politicians are and it’s both sides…. Strange.

Adicted to borrowing, rather than making hard choices, politics has become about who can kick the can furtherest down the road.

Outsourcing apprentice training and Govt's adopting policies, that pushed kids to Uni based careers, has resulted in mediocrity in trades and in degree standards.
Another example of the unintended consequencies, of brain farts by politicians, blind Freddy could see this would be the outcome, but the politicians and managers who initiated it are well off and moved on. As you say it hasn't happened overnight, this started in the early 80's and both sides are complicit IMO.