The kids of today...

motorway · 27 May 2009

Yep this BB agrees. By the bye, extensive long-term studies of twins brought up in the same household, twins separated at birth and brought up in different households, adopted children, siblings brought up in same household, siblings separated and brought up in different households have shown that parenting has absolutely minimal to zero effect on the outcome of these children as adults.

Click to expand...

This is rubbish.

There is no way that this could be tested as you described, the confounders are unmistakable.

Genetics plays a small role, and nuture plays a MASSIVE role.

Looking at the wrong thing

genes always important
But they need environment

NOW THINK

what Environment

When they grow up who do children have to deal with
relate to.. survive among ?

There own peers
parents have a certain influence
esp on certain things

But it is the peer group
That children grow up in
That is the future that genes switch on or off to.

certainly many more weapons out there
also young people often seem to lead independent lives

Think-- Lord of the Flies

Parents can have one Big influence
from an early age
and that is

Being available & involved
and crafting to some extent that environment that matters

ie the Peer groups.....

It is not the parents that children have to adapt to and relate
But there own peers - Genes ( evolution ) are primed for this
You develop personality to fit in some way
& maximize self esteem --- What ever it takes ..

So genes and environment
But the one of Tomorrow that they will have to compete in
For you name it... Success , Money , Sex .. Love .. Security
esp SELF ESTEEM..

motorway

Happy · 27 May 2009

Mr J said:
My point is that we learn by watching those around us. If those around us do not set a good example, it is unreasonable to expect us to do so in the future. If a certain generation is acting a certain way, rather than criticise, perhaps you (not you specifically) should think about why they're acting that way.

If you think that people are born with a certain standard of morals and know right from wrong without any outside influence, then it isn't worth discussing this any further.

Amazing conclusion, but if one decides to not use brain (after reaching age of reason) and only goes by bad examples, yes, perfect excuse not to do anything better.

MS+Tradesim · 27 May 2009

Timmy said:
Glad it was the Jesuits. Would be creepy if it was the Catholics...

The Jesuits are a Catholic order.

Anyway, it appears nothing changes.

"When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint".
Hesiod, 8th century BC

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint... As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
Attributed to Peter the Hermit, AD 1274

In April 1738, the press covered a report from a British Government committee which had been set up to "examine the causes of the present notorious immorality and profaneness."

In the 1800s, hordes of teens and pre-teens ran wild in American city streets, dodging authorities, "gnawing away at the foundations of society", as a commentator put it. In 1850, New York City recorded more than 200 gang wars fought largely by adolescent boys.

http://www.anxietyculture.com/antisocial.htm

Happy · 27 May 2009

Mr J said:
My point is that we learn by watching those around us. If those around us do not set a good example, it is unreasonable to expect us to do so in the future. If a certain generation is acting a certain way, rather than criticise, perhaps you (not you specifically) should think about why they're acting that way.

If you think that people are born with a certain standard of morals and know right from wrong without any outside influence, then it isn't worth discussing this any further.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15659&page=20
Post 194.

Sith1s said:
Has the upbringing of someone been raised yet?

I mean for an example (probably more applicable for the older generations) it would have been quite common for your parents to have been strict Catholics, therefore you always went to mass with them ect.

And since it's family tradition and expected you follow the family ways & it's always been that way it continues.

It may not be so applicable with the generations of today. If you want an example for that just look at me. My grandparents were very strict Jehova's Witnesses on one side, and strict Catholics on the other. But i don't share or follow their beliefs (much to their disappointment)

Having 2 different, but important sets of people of my life trying to preach different rules for their religion has probably turned me into the sceptic i am today..

Just what I talked about and would like to mention here.
Examples of previous generation’s ways looked at and then brain used to make decision for path to follow.

What a surprise, different path!

Sir Osisofliver · 27 May 2009

*Squee Squee Squee FAWOOSH*

Sir O Hoses all the whiny kids off the porch..that would be...

Timmy "Hey I started this thr*Gurgle gurgle*

Prawn "Don't go there, I've got Admin stat*Gah Argle splugh*

White Goodman "That little hose doesn't scar AAEEIIIIIII* Arrgh argh that's bloody freezing!!"

Bushman "Surely we can talk about this Sir O...you look like a reasonable chap Nooooooooooo"

Mr J "I'm going already ok. Owwwww Right in the back of the head, you SON of a Gragalargle gah"

Skirts the large and imposing figure of Gav with a nod before opening the esky cracking open a cold one and offering one to...

Joe Blow, Bowman, Nun, MS Tradesim and Julia

"Lovely night isn't it?"

Cheers:drink:

Sir O

prawn_86 · 27 May 2009

Sir Osisofliver said:
Cheers:drink:

Sir O

You obviously have been drinking before you said cheers...

Sir Osisofliver · 27 May 2009

You obviously have been drinking before you said cheers...

I Schwear Offisher I'm as jober as a sudge *hic*

Just one

Cheers

Sir O

Soft Dough · 27 May 2009

motorway said:
Looking at the wrong thing

genes always important
But they need environment

NOW THINK

what Environment

When they grow up who do children have to deal with
relate to.. survive among ?

There own peers
parents have a certain influence
esp on certain things

But it is the peer group
That children grow up in
That is the future that genes switch on or off to.

certainly many more weapons out there
also young people often seem to lead independent lives

Think-- Lord of the Flies

Parents can have one Big influence
from an early age
and that is

Being available & involved
and crafting to some extent that environment that matters

ie the Peer groups.....

It is not the parents that children have to adapt to and relate
But there own peers - Genes ( evolution ) are primed for this
You develop personality to fit in some way
& maximize self esteem --- What ever it takes ..

So genes and environment
But the one of Tomorrow that they will have to compete in
For you name it... Success , Money , Sex .. Love .. Security
esp SELF ESTEEM..

motorway

Which came first the chicken or the egg? ( btw I know it was the chicken )

So think of it this way

Parents bring up all kids, who will spend all their time together.

If they all are brought up well, then they will all make positive influences on each other.

That is what happened before, and is happening less now.

I am not sure what the driving force is, but my GUESS ( and I put on the fireproof suit now ) is that the loss of stay at home mums is the main cause, that children have little parental input, as the parents have become greedy and now need to work for the plasma, the car, boat holidays and overly-geared Mcmansions they now so covet ( which their parents did not have )

So in essence I believe that the lifestyle that parents demand now is affecting their offspring.

Hence why my children have a stay at home mother ( THE hardest job in the world ), and if their behaviour, education and abilities are anything to go by, my little social experiment is a massive success.

kgee · 27 May 2009

kids of today .....all need a good slap around the ears...simple

Soft Dough · 27 May 2009

kgee said:
kids of today .....all need a good slap around the ears...simple

Which of their 4 parents is going to do it?

The one at golf?
His Mrs who works nights?

The one who owns the business
or Her Mr who is Prime minister?

Sure as heck the Nanny wont
Teachers cant as they will get reported to district office.

Perhaps if one of the 4 parents actually cared for the child as much as their careers / wants then they would have the common sense to give them a good old-fashioned slap around the ears.

Julia · 27 May 2009

Soft Dough said:
Which came first the chicken or the egg? ( btw I know it was the chicken )

So think of it this way

Parents bring up all kids, who will spend all their time together.

If they all are brought up well, then they will all make positive influences on each other.

That is what happened before, and is happening less now.

I am not sure what the driving force is, but my GUESS ( and I put on the fireproof suit now ) is that the loss of stay at home mums is the main cause, that children have little parental input, as the parents have become greedy and now need to work for the plasma, the car, boat holidays and overly-geared Mcmansions they now so covet ( which their parents did not have )

So in essence I believe that the lifestyle that parents demand now is affecting their offspring.

Hence why my children have a stay at home mother ( THE hardest job in the world ), and if their behaviour, education and abilities are anything to go by, my little social experiment is a massive success.

I don't think it's quite that simple, Soft Dough. I know two families with teenagers, (university down to primary school age) where both parents work full time, and they are just great families, happy, supportive within their own families and in the wider community. At weekends they do stuff together, just the everyday things like work in the garden as a family, go for walks on the beach etc. What characterises them is an interest in other people, a general thoughtfulness and basic kindness.

kgee · 27 May 2009

i get pissed with this sort of crap ...since day one all this has happened....case point it started somewhere....I'd say all the ASF's are getting a little older, reccession and a little bit more cynical...yeah lets blame it on the kids...great call

StockPiles · 27 May 2009

"The Kids Of Today"

What is the ASX Stock Code for this company ?

Anyone know ? What is its Market Cap ?

EPS ?

I can't find anything about this company ? Is it a Child Care Company ?

WAIT ? am I at the correct Web-Site ? Is this Aussie Stock Forums ?

The kids of today are fead their reality from their parents. Dumb, poor adults bread with other dumb poor adults utilising the natural selection theory (People feel "comfortable" communicating with those within their own reality) and they funnily enough, have children and teach their children how to remain poor and DUMB, thereby feeding the economy and ensuring the rich get richer.... OBVIOUS !!! Duh !

Timmy · 28 May 2009

StockPiles said:
"The Kids Of Today"

What is the ASX Stock Code for this company ?

Anyone know ? What is its Market Cap ?

EPS ?

I can't find anything about this company ? Is it a Child Care Company ?

WAIT ? am I at the correct Web-Site ? Is this Aussie Stock Forums ?

Hey Piles, sorry, I only do technical analysis

StockPiles said:
The kids of today are fead their reality from their parents. Dumb, poor adults bread with other dumb poor adults utilising the natural selection theory (People feel "comfortable" communicating with those within their own reality) and they funnily enough, have children and teach their children how to remain poor and DUMB, thereby feeding the economy and ensuring the rich get richer.... OBVIOUS !!! Duh !

Interesting ideas (even more interesting spelling BTW). I don't agree - land of opportunity and all that...

Eloise · 28 May 2009

Mr J said:
My point is that we learn by watching those around us. If those around us do not set a good example, it is unreasonable to expect us to do so in the future. If a certain generation is acting a certain way, rather than criticise, perhaps you (not you specifically) should think about why they're acting that way.

If you think that people are born with a certain standard of morals and know right from wrong without any outside influence, then it isn't worth discussing this any further.

Why not use what you see to make yourself a better person instead of blaming those around you. "i'm a lazy, want everything for nothing so n so cause i was brought up like that".
You can see if the people around you are setting a good example or not - even if you were bought up with people constanly setting bad examples, you still know inside that what their doing is wrong. So why not take that "bad" example and use it in a positive way? Say to yourself i am going to be everything these people aren't and more, use them as the icon of everything you dont want to be and strive for that?
To say that you have no choice because you watch and learn from those around you is a load of crap - everyone has their own mind, makes their own decisions, and can turn the negatives to a positive..

Happy · 28 May 2009

Eloise said:
...

To say that you have no choice because you watch and learn from those around you is a load of crap - everyone has their own mind, makes their own decisions, and can turn the negatives to a positive..

Exactly, just lousy excuse!

nomore4s · 28 May 2009

Quite obviously all the problems in the world today have been caused by the baby boomers and now Gen Y are making things worse and poor old Gen X is just caught in the middle.

lol:

disarray · 28 May 2009

motorway said:
There own peers
parents have a certain influence
esp on certain things

But it is the peer group
That children grow up in
That is the future that genes switch on or off to.

i agree with the peer group being the most important aspect of childrens development, but the parent has an extremely important role to play in how the child relates to others within that peer group.

if the parent teaches the child self-respect, confidence, and encourages their self-worth then they will enter their peer groups from a position of strength and be less likely to compromise themselves for the group. for example so many young girls these days act like wh0res because they don't have a sense of self-worth and tie their value into their sexuality instead of their intellect and personality. i see smart young girls get treated like toys by complete douchebag guys because they don't value themselves highly enough.

this sense of self-value should be instilled by the parents (the father especially imo) so the child enters peer groups from a position of confidence and strength.

disclaimer - i don't have kids so this is theorycrafting.

p.s. bring back corporal punishment

Mr J · 28 May 2009

Eloise said:
Why not use what you see to make yourself a better person instead of blaming those around you. "i'm a lazy, want everything for nothing so n so cause i was brought up like that".
You can see if the people around you are setting a good example or not - even if you were bought up with people constanly setting bad examples, you still know inside that what their doing is wrong. So why not take that "bad" example and use it in a positive way? Say to yourself i am going to be everything these people aren't and more, use them as the icon of everything you dont want to be and strive for that?
To say that you have no choice because you watch and learn from those around you is a load of crap - everyone has their own mind, makes their own decisions, and can turn the negatives to a positive..

I know what you're saying, however I'm really talking about the over shift of society's standards. I believe we learn our morals from social interaction, the adults that raise us and by society's standards as a whole.

If an entire generation has become selfish, I don't see why that generation should be blamed. We all shape the world, some more than others, and and varying amounts depending on age (e.g. the baby boomers currently have more influence than gen Y). I don't "blame" a particular generation for any generation's shortcomings, it's just a result of the world we live in, which we all influence. However, that world is more heavily shaped by older generations, and therefore the actions of the older generations more heavily influence the younger generations.

Blame? No, that's a negative word and I don't feel negatively about it. I would just say it is cause and effect.

StockPiles · 28 May 2009

Timmy said:
Hey Piles, sorry, I only do technical analysis

Interesting ideas (even more interesting spelling BTW). I don't agree - land of opportunity and all that...

In a Land of oppurtunity, people are their own worst enemy and often have their ideas of what is "real" passed to them through their upbringing etc etc..

This of course does not apply to EVERYONE. It is a generalisation which applies to a MAJORITY - hence the existence of demographics, the science of psychology, Meyers Briggs Type Indicators etc etc etc ..

(sorry about the spelling )

Groups of people will enjoy their smokes, their Football, Their tattoes, their piercings and will forever debate over their preference of Holdens and/or Fords and there is no way in HELL anyone from my reality will make them understand how stupid they are ..

It is perfectly normal and within their reality for them to buy Smokes, drink coca cola, Watch and enjoy Football or get the latest Tattoe of a Rose / Love heart etc etc HELL even an eyebrow piercing or two is a normal experience..

Here I am with my reality saying " WTF ?????????????? " to all of the above ..

The kids of today...

motorway

Happy

MS+Tradesim

Happy

Sir Osisofliver

prawn_86

Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata

Sir Osisofliver

Soft Dough

kgee

Soft Dough

Julia

In Memoriam

kgee

StockPiles

Timmy

white swans need love too

Eloise

Happy

nomore4s

Commonsense isn't that common

disarray

Mr J

StockPiles

The kids of today...

Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata

In Memoriam

white swans need love too

Commonsense isn't that common

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