Solar power

What is the opportunity to make money from this in Australia? Any information and opinion on this subject will be useful to me

Have a look at the below video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hndgCM3pWg

From what I understand, you would need a 3 phase hook up to really make money running it as a business.

Also, let's say a very nice setup costs $350000., and you took out a loan for the full amount. It would take you approximately 10 years to pay it off. However the life cycle of good panels would be around 40-50 years.

There are currently HUGE tax benifits to setting it up, depreciation values around 30%.

I'll let the number crunchers do the maths on it.

I've also included to documentation in *.pdf formats for your viewing pleasure.

Some one on the radio here in Perth said that he had saved only $7 for the month of January, at this rate it will take 35 years to get his money back, that was with the government rebate.

We have solar power (newly installed, haven't received the first post-installation power bill yet); but in Perth we only receive 10/11 of the purchase price of power when we send power back to the grid (cost minus GST). In other parts of Australia (I think it's NSW, Vic and SA) they get 4 times the purchase price back as their REC!

Legislation has been before WA Parliament for ages and they still haven't made any decisions to increase the REC to align with some of the other states. If the REC increases, savings will be much easier to come by, especially since we are getting a 25% increase in the cost of purchasing electricity in a couple of months


wabbit

I would like to go solar hot water but I presently have natural gas heat hwh and there is no rebate in NSW if you want to convert gas to solar.

long,

Most solar storage water systems have an electric booster for those cold days and nights. This can be just as expensive as running a gas on-demand system if you use a lot of hot water...

Have a look at getting a solar storage HWS with a gas on-demand booster; sometimes an existing gas system can be utilised. If the sun hasn't heated the water sufficiently, the gas will top up the heat; it's only used when needed and only heats what is needed so it's really efficient. Thermostats can be installed which allow you to set the optimum temperature.

Your savings could offset not getting a rebate?


wabbit

wabbit said:

long,

Most solar storage water systems have an electric booster for those cold days and nights. This can be just as expensive as running a gas on-demand system if you use a lot of hot water...

Have a look at getting a solar storage HWS with a gas on-demand booster; sometimes an existing gas system can be utilised. If the sun hasn't heated the water sufficiently, the gas will top up the heat; it's only used when needed and only heats what is needed so it's really efficient. Thermostats can be installed which allow you to set the optimum temperature.

Your savings could offset not getting a rebate?


wabbit

Click to expand...

Thanks, I know about these systems but I am still grieved about lack of any subsidy simply because I took the responsible decision to use gas hw.

wabbit said:

We have solar power (newly installed, haven't received the first post-installation power bill yet); but in Perth we only receive 10/11 of the purchase price of power when we send power back to the grid (cost minus GST). In other parts of Australia (I think it's NSW, Vic and SA) they get 4 times the purchase price back as their REC!

Legislation has been before WA Parliament for ages and they still haven't made any decisions to increase the REC to align with some of the other states. If the REC increases, savings will be much easier to come by, especially since we are getting a 25% increase in the cost of purchasing electricity in a couple of months


wabbit

Click to expand...

Renewable Energy Certificates (REC's) have the same value nationally.

Any difference in WA should relate to the energy rate and not to the REC value.

One of the big problems with household generation relates to how fixed distribution costs are accounted for. Given that these costs amount to more than the value of the electricity being distributed, it's a rather significant issue.

Tasmania did separate these costs out for consumers for a couple of years during the 1990's, thus providing a true level playing field for all forms of generation both centralised supply and anything else, including direct use of non-electrical energy such as oil or wood.

That ended amidst massive political pressure on the Hydro, as the monopoly generator and retailer of electricity, and an election campaign that saw this as a dominant issue.

And so the Network Charge was scrapped, thus leaving the electricity industry with no real financial choice other than to pursue maximum sales volume. And so the campaign to get wood heaters out and electric heaters in was ramped up to the max complete with branding, an advertising blitz playing on the health effects of the alternatives.

Then the industry was disagregated and an even more blatant slogan adopted - "use our energy", a tactic that changed when drought hit, Basslink ran late and the dams were almost empty. And so the "use our energy" slogan was hastily replaced with "no one matches our energy" on sub-stations, vehicles and everywhere else it had appeared. The new agenda was, as it had been many times before, conservation. At least that's how it needed to appear to a public alarmed at shrinking lakes and the prospect of blackouts.

End result? Well the air is certainly cleaner with more homes using electric heating that's a certain benefit. And we've had an economic boom fuelled through the building of power stations, gas pipes and transmission lines. Just don't mention CO2 emissions...

I doubt that any government anywhere that is aware of the political consequences of what was tried in Tas will go down the same path. And it's very much a dead and buried idea here too. Which leaves the electricity industry forced (everywhere, not just in Tas) to pursue sales volume no matter what the consequence.

The only reason solar is accepted, or should I say tolerated, is because it's not a serious threat to total volumes. Any notion of feed-in tariffs and other incentives will disappear real fast if too many consumers start using it, something that's unlikely with Austrlaian Government subsidies also being wound down (whilst appearing not to be) for solar PV.

For an ordinary household, if you want reasonable energy efficiency then I'd suggest:

Solar or heat pump hot water. Which is best will depend on location and the house itself.

Any system that isn't electric resistance for heating. Gas, heat pumps, wood, pellets etc are all a more efficient option (though in some areas they won't be economic despite their energy efficiency).

Use evaporative cooling if it's suitable for your area and you have significant cooling use.

And of course insulate, shade windows etc to minimise the amount of heating and cooling you acutally use.

All other things will in most cases either make only a small difference or are not a financially viable means of reducing emissions etc. Some are still worthwhile, but it's heating, cooling and hot water that are usually the big household energy users.

You might also consider a gas cooktop. It won't save money once installation costs are considered (unless you already have gas in the kitchen) but it's generally a superior way to cook and it's more energy efficient than non-induction electric cooktops.

As for me, well I am looking seriously at a rooftop solar PV system but that's not really about reducing emissions or saving money. Smurf just likes the idea of having a power station at home and if the government's paying two thirds of the cost then that's good enough for me. It's still not very profitable though.

In the meantime, I'll just go and pay the $600 power bill I seem to have received. That I had 12,000 christmas lights up in December would explain quite a bit of that...

I just thought of this great idea;

you buy a huge boat, and layer it with Solar Panels,
they you sail it to the SouthPole for 6 months of sunlight, then once that is done,
you sail it to the NorthPole for 6 more months of light,

You're DOUBLING your profit!!

:jump:

long$$ said:

I would like to go solar hot water but I presently have natural gas heat hwh and there is no rebate in NSW if you want to convert gas to solar.

Click to expand...

In terms of fossil fuel use, there wouldn't be much gain by changing to any system other than gas (not electric) boosted solar since the gas HWS is already quite efficient. Most of the rebate schemes only target electric HWS for this reason.

pilots said:

Some one on the radio here in Perth said that he had saved only $7 for the month of January, at this rate it will take 35 years to get his money back, that was with the government rebate.

Click to expand...

I'd bet they're referring to a solar HWS connected to day-rate electric boosting that has replaced either an off-peak electric or gas HWS.

Such systems are pretty common, financially an outright dud and aren't as helpful to the environment as many would expect either (unless you consider creating a need for more power stations and trans lines to meet peak demand as helping the environment somehow...)

If you're going solar then either you want an off-peak electric boost or a gas (mains gas not LPG unless you've got plenty of $) boost. And if it's a heat pump then get one that will work on off-peak. Forget anything that heats water using day-rate electricity - that whole concept is mad when you think about what's involved.

From what I understand, you would need a 3 phase hook up to really make money running it as a business.

Also, let's say a very nice setup costs $350000., and you took out a loan for the full amount. It would take you approximately 10 years to pay it off. However the life cycle of good panels would be around 40-50 years.

There are currently HUGE tax benefits to setting it up, depreciation values around 30%.

Click to expand...

That was a great post Gordon 2007. If the figures stack up as suggested I can see an excellent opportunity for SA and Queensland rural people to establish a good little earner through solar power generation. (SA and Queensland have the best feed in tariffs)

If your getting leery about the stock market you could do a lot worse than investing in your next 30 years energy supply at todays prices with a profitable sale price for your juice from year 1.

basilio said:

That was a great post Gordon 2007. If the figures stack up as suggested I can see an excellent opportunity for SA

Click to expand...

Thanks.
I've got my eye on a piece of property out in one of the wine regions. Along with building a house on it, I'm also thinking of putting a solar farm on it. The land is quite large and I was trying to think of a way to make some dollars off of it.

I still need to do heaps more reseach before I decide anything though. For me, it's the property and house I want first. If the dollars work out and I feel I've done enough research and feeling confident, then I may proceed with a solar farm.

Many thanks to you all
In brief, I live in the EU at the moment and I interested to building such.
I already have a quite knowledge in the area but about here in EU
Тhe law in different countries is varies as to the build and of the purchase price but the average cost of buying is around 0.52 EUR
making returns of about 5 to 7 years and then a 10% profit per year.
From some time I ponder over move to Australia
In this connection, I'm interested in build solar power as an investment with which I'll get a visa.

Regards

wabbit said:

long,

Most solar storage water systems have an electric booster for those cold days and nights. This can be just as expensive as running a gas on-demand system if you use a lot of hot water...

Have a look at getting a solar storage HWS with a gas on-demand booster; sometimes an existing gas system can be utilised. If the sun hasn't heated the water sufficiently, the gas will top up the heat; it's only used when needed and only heats what is needed so it's really efficient. Thermostats can be installed which allow you to set the optimum temperature.

Your savings could offset not getting a rebate?


wabbit

Click to expand...

wabbit
further to my previous post it seems that I can get $1600 of carbon credits with a two panel gas assisted solar systems

My solar power project has somehow ended up turning into a painting project...

No panels yet but I'll be up at 6am tomorrow ready to resume painting. Still can't believe I'm spending Easter painting. I hate painting more than just about anything but it'll be a lot easier doing it now before there's a few panels in the way.

All going to plan, my solar panels will be up and running just before the control panel in my avatar, which is in a real power station, is also back in service. Pure coincidence that, but anyway...

The party is over. In NSW at least. Our 60c is going to be 40c by retrospective legislation. So much for contracts with Country Energy. Slater and Gordon where are you.

In reply to some "cautious" comments about el- or gas-boosted solar hot water systems:

It really pays to analyse your requirements and size your HWS to suit your needs. If you're a large family with teenage daughters that spend forever under a hot shower, your consumption will be much greater than that of a single couple.
So, before looking for the cheapest system, get an idea about your average daily use of hot water. If you're serious about saving, you will of course have a flow restrictor and economical showerhead installed. Those two combined will save you more hot water than anything else - especially those wisecracks you see on TV, urging us to "restrict a shower to 4 minutes a day". Those scriptwriters obviously don't have kids.

The result of that initial assessment will most likely astound you. It did us: Keeping a 50L tank even at the lowest temperature the thermostat would permit, used to cost us an average of $80 a month in electricity alone. How much hot water we actually drew, we could only guess: About 50L per person per day would be a reasonable assumption.

Then came the tricky bit: How long a spell of utter sunlessness would we expect? Remember that a good SHWS will extract some heat out of an overcast sky. Remember also that a good insulation will maintain the temperature for a long time, and if you draw, say, 50L out of a heated reservoir, the next 50L won't be cold as cold, but merely a little less hot than the first 50L.
Anyway, we applied a fudge factor of 3 days and bought a 300L tank.

In our geographical area, that turned out to be more than sufficient for the two of us:
After two years, we have recouped the original investment by lowering our power bills - and then some. On a couple of occasions, we did switch on the electrical booster, for a total of less than four hours in two years!
With hindsight, we probably could have gotten away with half the size, considering that our visitors usually come from Overseas and stay with us during summer when the sun is heating 300L in no time, even if there are two or three times the showers and sweaty clothes going through.

Conclusion: If you install the right size SHWS, you don't have to worry about power costs for running a booster. Even without any government subsidies and green rebates, a good solar hot water system will pay for itself within about five years. If you can get one or even two lots of $1600 subsidies, payback time is less than 2 years. IMHO a no-brainer.

just wanted to concur; same story here;
in Brisbane hinterland, lot's of clouds, but after average of 10 booster use a year (ie maybe 20 or 30 min each) a no brainer;
and the first thing we did after moving to another house was to install solar hot water AND a switch to ensure you are in control of the booster: you do not want the booster to trigger after your morning shower on a crisp winter morning knowing that by 10AM, the water will be boiling hot;
Hope it helps
expect 25 to 30% reduction on your power usage on average