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MF Global Australia - What are you doing?

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Really good post Redbin Thanks
 
Tanaka said:
*Note to self read IB's PDS after typing this.
Click to expand...

On another forum never to be mentioned on this one is a good suggestion is to watch IB's share price IBKR and act accordingly.
 

It's crazy how incestuous the financial world is in the US. The head of the CFTC is Corzine's buddy from his Goldman Sachs days.
 
So why does it take Deloitte Australia and ASIC 3 months to repay Australian Account Holders at MFGA????

https://secure.globeadvisor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/gam/20111115/GIMFGLOBALCANADA1115ATL

https://secure.globeadvisor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/gam/20111116/GIMFCANADAPARKINSONATL

Do we, as account holders, need to collectively independently engage legal counsel to start initiating actions against the administrator and ASIC to get our money back now and get this in the worldwide media?
 
The story I am getting for the CFD pool is not all of the info about open positions are in from the counter parties so the Admin cannot reconcile all of the client positions. So he does not know how much can be returned to clients?

I guess if you think about the $10 million short fall in what Db returned this must be the slippage in CFD Client open positions. If this is not the case then those who did not have any open positions on the day will also have to be allocated part of the short fall.

I still think clients should "PLS WAIT" untill funds are released before any legal action is taken. Once we are all cashed up we can consider the merits of a class action for any shortfalls especially those of us who did not have any open positions on the day.
 
If you are not happy with the Administrator still holding onto our funds you may want to follow Brent' s example & forward the following email to Bill Shorten.


Email To Bill Shorten, MP.


From: Brent Penfold [mailto:bpenfold@tpg.com.au]

Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 12:48 PM

To: ministerialemails@treasury.gov.au

Cc: Brent Penfold

Subject: Deloitte dragging their feet in the administration of MF Global Australia


To the Honourable Mr Bill Shorten MP,

Minister for Financial Services and Superannuation; Assistant Treasurer.


Re: Deloitte dragging their feet in the administration of MF Global Australia


Dear Bill,

I’m contacting you to draw your attention to Deloitte’s apparent unwillingness to provide a part distribution of account balances to clients of MF Global Australia (MFGA), similar to what is happening in Canada and the US.


It appears to be Deloitte’s preference to hold on to client property held in client segregated accounts until at least April 2012 (after the second meeting of creditors).


I would like to know why 20,000 Australian account holders have to wait so long while the Canadian and US customers of MF Global will receive the majority of their funds by early December?


It appears to me that it’s obvious that it’s in Chris Campbell and Deloitte’s interest to select the longest possible process in order to maximise their fees.


I have pointed out the excessive level of their fees both in the media and in a personal meeting I had with Chris Campbell on Wednesday 9th November.


In my opinion they haven’t taken a proverbial hammer to crack the administrative nut of MF Global Australia. They’re taken an excavator!


If you weren’t aware I can assure you that MF Global was a moderately sized business with around 100 staff operating in a single office in Sydney, in the same building as Deloitte. Their business was essentially the electronic execution of trading orders and electronic reconciliation of cash transfer balances between 80 odd accounts spread amongst foreign currencies. It was a supersized ATM business. Now I acknowledge I’m probably being a little unfair to MF Global Australia, but what I’m trying to express is the simple truth that brokering is not rock science. But you wouldn’t believe that with their estimated first month of fees being over $1,000,000!


Now Deloitte’s objective in maximizing their fees goes against the best interest of the Australian clients of MFGA.


Deloitte’s delay in distributing client property is causing a huge opportunity loss for clients.


You see clients are traders and advisers.


Traders and advisers need their trading capital to make a living.


Traders cannot trade while Deloitte holds on to their capital.


You will see many advisory businesses fail due to this situation.


You will see many individuals being unable to meet their current financial commitments.


And this is totally unnecessary as Deloitte acknowledges that over 50% of clients funds are sitting in the segregate accounts.

There is nothing stopping them from making a distribution.


This can easily be achieved as the customer coalition formed in the US have put forward, with the support of CME (the largest derivatives exchange in the world). As a result, US customers are expected to receive 75% of their funds by early December; Canadian customers are due to receive their funds in a similar time frame.


So why can’t Chris Campbell and Deloitte treat the Australian MF Global segregated client accounts in the same manner as the US administrator?


If it can be done in the US it can be done here!


I believe your intervention or mere questioning of this situation would pressure Chris Campbell and Deloitte to apply the same methodology as the US administrators.


If it can be done in the US why can’t it be done here?


And just as importantly, and if not more so, your intervention and the resulting relief to account holders will underscore a fundamental corner stone of Australia’s financial system, that client segregated accounts are just that, segregated from and not part of a brokers business whether it be in an Administrator’s hands or not, but belong to the client.



Yours Sincerely

Brent Penfold

MFGA Client

Futures Trader & Adviser

ASIC AFSL No. 225946
 
Why do US clients get their funds back, and not Australian clients?

Good advise Hatton01

In addition to emailing Bill Shorten, here is a list of things you can do to keep the issue "top-of-mind":
- call the politicians' offices: this will generate discussions about the issue, it makes it personal, and will draw attention when it starts to keep their phones busy: Senator Mathias Cormann, Shadow Assistant Treasurer, Shadow Minister for Financial Services and Superannuation (his Policy Advisor Peter Katsambanis promised me he will call deloitte tomorrow morning), your local member
- call deloitte and ask them the questions
- lodge a complaint with ASIC: http://www.asic.gov.au/complain
- lodge a dispute with the financial Ombudsman: https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute

Suggested talking points (similar to Brent's email):
- I’m a customer of MFGA and all my funds have been frozen since 1-Nov
- I derive my income from these funds, and like thousands of people like me or advisory firms, I am without income as long as these funds are frozen and consequently under Financial Difficulty
- The situation in Australia is much simpler than the situation in the US: segregated accounts in Australia were all in surplus, there was no illegal use or theft of customers funds by the company and it had much less accounts, much less funds under management and much less open positions to transfer or liquidate
- More than 2/3 of funds have been collected as of 24-Nov for the 2 largest segregated accounts (CFD 81%, futures 67%)
- Why then can deloitte in the US give the US customers their money back and deloitte Australia can’t make an immediate partial distribution of funds to Australian clients?
- Can we trust deloitte to act in the clients’ best interests, when their obvious interest is to adopt the slowest possible process to maximise their fees and to leave the money frozen as long as possible to maximise the interests flowing back into the company to fund their fees?

People power – Act now! – Keep the issue top-of-mind – Let's get a partial distribution before Christmas!

pf
 

This is awful. Look at what Gerald Celente is going through with MF Global.

Is our Government involved or are they in hiding? This is unbelievable....

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/1/CkjDBRuQyS0

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/0/oIHmVsJ6SDg
 
Hi I think the focus now should be getting the rest of the 10 million from DBA. I think DBA action are appalling not providing any statements for 2 weeks and then not providing adequate statements after 4 weeks.
Also with the $10 million shortfall I think it's very unreasonable (dba charges MFG less then 4 bps per transaction so can't see fees as being very high for liquidating the positions, in term of market movement most stocks can we liquidated very quickly and market movement can be in favor as well).
Regards if DBA were correct about everything why have they not provide administrator with statements 1 month into the bankruptcy.
Simply put DBA actions have been very uncooperative and unprofessional , for 10 mil which they will most likely need to payback DBA are putting at risk there relationship with all their insto client in Australia.
I think it important to:
Let all major bank’s (particularly compliance and risk people aware of DBA actions with regards to MF global, to let the media know about this (though protest and news article).
This is the perfect time to do this as all banks are reviewing their trading broker after so many banks were downgraded.
Putting pressure on DBA will be the best way to making them return the fund quickly.
I think also need to ask our representative trustee to get more information on DBA actions over the course of the past month.
 
I think the focus now should be trying to get the rest of the 10 million from DBA.
I think DBA actions are appalling not providing any statements for 2 weeks and then not providing adequate information after 4 weeks.
With the $10 million shortfall I think it's very unreasonable (dba normally charges MFG less then 4 bps per transaction so can't see fees as being very high for liquidating the positions, in term of market movement most stocks can be liquidated very quickly and therefore slippage should be fairly small).
Regardless if DBA were confident about there calculation they the administrator with statements quickly and not delay for 1whole .
Simply put DBA actions have been very uncooperative and unprofessional , for the sake of 10 mil which they may need to payback, DBA are putting at risk their relationship with all their insto client in Australia.
I think it important to make dba pay for their action and put pressure on them to payback the money quickly:
We should let all major bank’s know of the risk of trading with dba(particularly compliance and risk people) by emailing them over DBA’s actions with regards to MF global, to let the media know about this (though protest and news article). Please only send through factual information.
This is the perfect time to do this as all banks are reviewing their trading brokers after so many banks were downgraded last 2 weeks.
Putting pressure on DBA clients and via the media will be the best way to making them return the fund quickly.
I think also need to ask our representative trustee to get more information on DBA actions over the course of the past month.
 
I think I only know of one way of getting our $10 million back from DB.

They need to be get some very negative publicity from some very angry MF Global clients about ie: the greedy Bank "Stealing our money".

It has to be done in person by at least 500+ of us turning up at there office in Sydney demanding a return of our client segregated funds. Not sure how many of you would join a peaceful rally outside there office ? (I am in Brisbane but would we willing to come down for the day).

Not sure how we can get a list of CFD customers ?

Unfortunately this is a bit of an old story so hard to get the press involved.
I even had to give permission to print my name to get one story published.

Maybe the next step might be "letters to the editor" highlighting how risky it is to have funds tied up with Australian brokers?

If the above does not work then a "class action" is the next step.

Should see a email from our Administrator re the Committe of Creditors meeting last Friday.
 
I called the following number (from the Admin MF Global website) which is now being redirected to the MF Global office this morning.

Tel: +61 2 8273 8851 (9am-5pm weekdays).

The phone was answered by the only helpful person (from MF Global) I have come across in this whole saga.

I am told DB have passed on more infor re the open CFD trades. There is going to be another meeting (between MF Global Aust staff & Db)this week to get the remaining data & then more due dilligence (ie: checking for fair prices etc) before client accounts will be updated. We wont get back all of the remaining $10 million but some of it due to slippage. Once all of this is done we should have "distribution of our funds".

I am feeling a heck of a lot more positive today that finally there is end in sight.
 
hatton01

Yes, shame on DBA.

But more importantly, SHAME ON DELOITTE!

Because the impact of DBA's actions is only 5-10% of our money at stake, while the action of Deloitte affect 70% to 80% of our money.

Customers are getting their money back in the US, the UK, Canada, Hong Kong and Singapore. Australia will be the only country in the planet where clients will have to wait for years to get their money.

Thanks to who? Thanks to Chris Campbell. He is taking excuse of the Law to refuse to take the only common sense solution : share NOW what's in each pool on pro-rata of the account balances.

Why is he doing this? pure and simple greed. He sits on a pile of gold, and will not let go easily. As Administrators, he controls everything and is the only one with access to the information.

His plan is simple: make the reconciliation as complex as possible - select an approach as divisive as possible to encourage customers to fight against each other.
This is text-book insolvency firms tactics - merchants of dispute.

He's already made very clear that any dispute within a pool will need his actions and Deloitte's lawyers fees funded by that pool. All he needs is to provoke the dispute.

If you don't believe me, here is a little example: 2 days before the first meeting of creditors, I met privately Chris Campbell with a couple of other fellow traders to seek clarification on the approach taken by Deloitte. Chris told us he would not mention the claim by some large account holders not ready to accept the losses resulting from slippage during the liquidation of their positions and over-stating their claims, because he did not want to give other traders encouragement to do so.
Yet what happened on Friday 11th November at the First Meeting of Creditors?
He not only mentioned that fact several times, but this was his key talking point when he accepted interviews from the media:
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-business/mf-global-clients-overstate-claims-admin-20111111-1nbft.html

The key action of the CCC in the US (http://commoditycustomercoalition.org/?page_id=185) was to enable a quick distribution of funds back to clients. They got approval in court to take a radically simplified approach and use the information available (account balance statements) rather than the protracted approach initially proposed by the Trustee.

Chris Campbell is claiming that the law in Australia prevent him to distribute the money to clients quickly, as he is concerned that he might unfairly impact on client's property.
Mr Campbell, every minute you delay the distribution of our funds, you are unfairly impacting our property. We can't trade, we cant' make a living, we can't put food on the table and pay the bills.
And what a joke! Australia, with its best financial regulatory framework in the world, not even capable to protect investors money and make a farce of the implementation of segregated accounts in Australia.

Mr Campbell's arguments are just HYPOCRISY. The reality is that Deloitte and Chris Campbell's objective is to keep the administration going for as long as there is money left in the segregated accounts. And in addition to raking up huge fees, they also profit from the interests from our frozen funds.

Our actions should target Deloitte - this is hurting all of us much more than DBA.
 
Hi Pifousyd,

1/ I think the fairest solution for each pool would be for clients holding cash not to be penalised by those clients who held open positions on the day & now have to take a loss. Have you ever heard of another client paying for one of your trading losses ? Unfortunately for clients holding open positions this was a black swan event! From all accounts I think this is the direction Chris is heading in & I am happy to wait a few more weeks if it means my cash only CFD account does not have to take a large haircut like 20% loss.

2/ As for the Administrator making a claim on our interest check the FAQ.

3/ If you look at the MF Global (Aust) company position the net assets are $10M. Ample funds to pay Chris. He is certainly not going to charge us $1 mil a month from now on as there isnt a heck of a lot to do any more? I think he addressed this at the first meeting when my mate Brent accused him of being greedy. There is even a contingent liablity of $2m + another $2m for short falls in the client pools.

I would think by Jan 2012 the CFD accounts should be reconciled. No reason not to distribute CFD funds back to clients.

4/ Not sure about all of the other countries you mentioned but the Canadians got there funds back thanks to a system called the "Canadian Investor Protection Fund" which has been specifically setup for when a member broker goes insolvant. I think the Seg funds get transfered to another member. Something that should happen here if they want us to have faith in Australian brokers moving forward.
 
Please do not believe what Deloitte are telling you unless you can verify this independently. As we all agree Deloitte have an interest in dragging this on as they have access to the interest accumulating on our cash balances, as with other unsecured creditors. And don't believe what the remaining staff at MFGA tell you when you ring up 8273 8851 - they are now working for Deloitte and they get told to tell us what Deloitte tell them - that everything is fine and dandy and Deloitte are working hard. More lies...

What Deloitte are saying about DBA not providing enough information is complete rubbish. DBA's systems are automated and have been providing the same information to MFGA for the last x number of years so they could be reconciled at least daily by MFGA!! There was enough clarity in those statements for us to get our statements daily and also be margin called on a daily basis if needed to be. Now suddenly their reporting has changed so Deloitte don't get enough info to reconcile positions in 3 weeks.........I wish Deloitte would not take us for fools and just come out and say that for them to get paid their fees to do this job this needed to be a 3 month engagement. Then we can decide if we want to remove them or not. But Deloitte may have done a deal with ASIC in advance to make sure they get at least 3 months interest on our balances. That would explain why ASIC have done nothing despite many complaints.

Surely we have the right, or those representing our interests on the Credit Committee like Brent, to demand what positions and statements DBA and ASX have provided. Can we not check these independently?

Deloitte are just in on the game stealing interest from MFGA clients - as has been pointed out numerous times in this blog. If customers in the US can get part of their money back despite $1.2 billion missing (ie 22% haircut) why can't customers in Australia with no client shortfall????

There is enough cash in all product pools to make a decent partial payout to all customers NOW!! All positions are closed - NO EXCUSES DELOITTE PAY UP NOW!!!

I have written a letter of complaint to Bill Shorten and complained to ASIC and the Financial Ombudsman and of course Deloitte - I suggest you all do the same!!! Do not stop unless we get the action we need to get OUR money back NOW!!!
 
Hi Riskapur,

I have had another chat with a very reliable MF global person who is still working hard to release our funds. The good news is we should see another update (either today or tomorrow) which outlines a set of timelines for when we should have our funds back.

On the question of interest earned I am fairly certain it will be paid into the client pools.
There is nothing that I have read/researched which indicates interest on funds will be pocketed by the Administrator. I have asked the admin to address this issue as it is an area of concern to many of you.

As a Platinum client of MF global I am in the same boat as everyone else but have also now lost a month's interest on my cash. Like everyone else I will be happy to forget the interest if I am able to 100% of my funds back sooner rather than later.

Anyone know of a good broker in Canada ?
 
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