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In Tech/A's trade system, he used falling below 120 day moving average and backtesting has shown this to be successful for the companies and timeframes that were backtested. I guess we'll know in Oct if this exit point is valid for this company and this timeframe.Fleeta said:So when you talk about a trailing stop, what kind of stop do I put on VSL, considering I would love to hang around til October 05 to get the CGT benefit.
I was about to start a thread on Exit Strategies & did a search, but found this !tech/a said:I guess I look at exits a little differently to most.
In the long term trading systems that I trade its not un common to have trades last over 12 mths.UTB TOL QBE all are over from memory.
But exits are designed to be taken so if its hit regardless of the tax implications its taken.The exit is tested to give a result which we have ben able to quantify through rigorous testing and if we alter it then we are altering the possible result of the method.Not what a systems trader is trying to do.
This brings me to the discussion of exits in general.
If all traders spent as long looking for a great exit methodology as they do for the perfect entry we would have a lot more successful traders.
Close stops mean you can be aggressive and have shorter exits.
Im always amused by the fact that we all buy stocks and hold them when they reverse.I think this often happens because we dont often buy INTO Momentum.If we did then we could set very close stops have greater reward to risk and be a lot more profitable.If Im trading shorter term thats what Id want.
Longer term Im expecting the stock to basically go on with it for a long period.
The market will tell me when value according to investors has met an agreement.This is seen in a flat period.This could be a few hrs in a daytraders time frame to a few weeks in a medium term traders to around 3 mths in my veiw.About 25% of average holding time.Buyers and sellers agree price is about right---its a stage 3 in the cycle of a stock.Until it moves positive or negative we can only guess at wether its Accumulation OR Distribution.If we trade a portfolio holding a few of these is no big problem but hold them long enough and they could cause you a flat time.Bad if thats your income.Only testing will give you a period which suits your timeframe.This is known as a Flat time exit.
Then there is the TRAILING STOP.
Ive seen this dominate the method and it becomes THE EXIT.
If the average return on your trading method is 7 times risk and your at 50 times then set a trailing stop but give it some room---dont all of a sudden turn it into a short term trade.It must clearly tell you that the trend has failed or stopped and taking the stop now will lock in more profit than letting it go to the stop or save you from a shock fall.
Now my longterm stop is a 180day EMA of the LOW.Thats just a stop not "THE" stop of stops.It gives the best return on the method and best risk reward ratio.Ive tried many but this comes out the best.Trial and error.
Again this is why I advocate knowing your NUMBERS ----particularly if you trade in a discretionary manner----if you dont(Know your numbers) how do you know your going to come out on top after 50 trades?
IF Trading in a discretionary manner.----- Ive come to the conclusion that you really must give yourself the opportunity to take the greatest profit you can on short term trades.Expect to be stopped out often at a tick or so.Expect to re enter when a trade fails then turns (Your timing was a bit out but you didnt know that when you stopped out!).Every now and again youll pull a 100-200% move and have heaps of 1 and 2% losses---nett very profitable.
If you want more wins and less profit to gain an overall nett gain then I dont think you can do this trading discretionary.You could find a way to do it mechanically and those that trade this way DO!
The perfect stop.
Wish I knew what that is! If it gives you a positive expectancy and in real trading makes you a good return----then Id say its perfect for that way of trading!The best there is---probably not I keep looking and testing.
(I actually found one that is better but thats in the second method I trade)
as a hint its based on Price nothing to do with oscillators or Indicators.).
If anyone has an exit Idea please post it up.
tech
How do you guys go about setting an exit strategy? For me its all about time, cos I want to be in for 12 months to get CGT discount. Its worth it.
However, one aspect that you guys have alerted me to is 'opportunity cost'. What's a tax problem when you can make more money elsewhere in the market.
But exits are designed to be taken so if its hit regardless of the tax implications its taken.The exit is tested to give a result which we have ben able to quantify through rigorous testing and if we alter it then we are altering the possible result of the method.Not what a systems trader is trying to do.
This brings me to the discussion of exits in general.
If all traders spent as long looking for a great exit methodology as they do for the perfect entry we would have a lot more successful traders.
Close stops mean you can be aggressive and have shorter exits.
Im always amused by the fact that we all buy stocks and hold them when they reverse.
I think this often happens because we dont often buy INTO Momentum.If we did then we could set very close stops have greater reward to risk and be a lot more profitable.If Im trading shorter term thats what Id want.
Then there is the TRAILING STOP.
Ive seen this dominate the method and it becomes THE EXIT.
If the average return on your trading method is 7 times risk and your at 50 times then set a trailing stop but give it some room---dont all of a sudden turn it into a short term trade.It must clearly tell you that the trend has failed or stopped and taking the stop now will lock in more profit than letting it go to the stop or save you from a shock fall.
The perfect stop.
tech/a said:If all traders spent as long looking for a great exit methodology as they do for the perfect entry we would have a lot more successful traders.
Close stops mean you can be aggressive and have shorter exits.
tech/a said:.........
IF Trading in a discretionary manner.----- Ive come to the conclusion that you really must give yourself the opportunity to take the greatest profit you can on short term trades.Expect to be stopped out often at a tick or so.Expect to re enter when a trade fails then turns (Your timing was a bit out but you didnt know that when you stopped out!).Every now and again youll pull a 100-200% move and have heaps of 1 and 2% losses---nett very profitable.
If you want more wins and less profit to gain an overall nett gain then I dont think you can do this trading discretionary.You could find a way to do it mechanically and those that trade this way DO!
tech/a said:I guess I look at exits a little differently to most.
In the long term trading systems that I trade its not un common to have trades last over 12 mths.UTB TOL QBE all are over from memory.
But exits are designed to be taken so if its hit regardless of the tax implications its taken.The exit is tested to give a result which we have ben able to quantify through rigorous testing and if we alter it then we are altering the possible result of the method.Not what a systems trader is trying to do.
This brings me to the discussion of exits in general.
If all traders spent as long looking for a great exit methodology as they do for the perfect entry we would have a lot more successful traders.
Close stops mean you can be aggressive and have shorter exits.
Im always amused by the fact that we all buy stocks and hold them when they reverse.I think this often happens because we dont often buy INTO Momentum.If we did then we could set very close stops have greater reward to risk and be a lot more profitable.If Im trading shorter term thats what Id want.
Longer term Im expecting the stock to basically go on with it for a long period.
The market will tell me when value according to investors has met an agreement.This is seen in a flat period.This could be a few hrs in a daytraders time frame to a few weeks in a medium term traders to around 3 mths in my veiw.About 25% of average holding time.Buyers and sellers agree price is about right---its a stage 3 in the cycle of a stock.Until it moves positive or negative we can only guess at wether its Accumulation OR Distribution.If we trade a portfolio holding a few of these is no big problem but hold them long enough and they could cause you a flat time.Bad if thats your income.Only testing will give you a period which suits your timeframe.This is known as a Flat time exit.
Then there is the TRAILING STOP.
Ive seen this dominate the method and it becomes THE EXIT.
If the average return on your trading method is 7 times risk and your at 50 times then set a trailing stop but give it some room---dont all of a sudden turn it into a short term trade.It must clearly tell you that the trend has failed or stopped and taking the stop now will lock in more profit than letting it go to the stop or save you from a shock fall.
Now my longterm stop is a 180day EMA of the LOW.Thats just a stop not "THE" stop of stops.It gives the best return on the method and best risk reward ratio.Ive tried many but this comes out the best.Trial and error.
Again this is why I advocate knowing your NUMBERS ----particularly if you trade in a discretionary manner----if you dont(Know your numbers) how do you know your going to come out on top after 50 trades?
IF Trading in a discretionary manner.----- Ive come to the conclusion that you really must give yourself the opportunity to take the greatest profit you can on short term trades.Expect to be stopped out often at a tick or so.Expect to re enter when a trade fails then turns (Your timing was a bit out but you didnt know that when you stopped out!).Every now and again youll pull a 100-200% move and have heaps of 1 and 2% losses---nett very profitable.
If you want more wins and less profit to gain an overall nett gain then I dont think you can do this trading discretionary.You could find a way to do it mechanically and those that trade this way DO!
The perfect stop.
Wish I knew what that is! If it gives you a positive expectancy and in real trading makes you a good return----then Id say its perfect for that way of trading!The best there is---probably not I keep looking and testing.
(I actually found one that is better but thats in the second method I trade)
as a hint its based on Price nothing to do with oscillators or Indicators.).
If anyone has an exit Idea please post it up.
tech
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