Day traders ONLY - a continuing study

coyotte · 18 December 2006

Guppy's : "Snapshot Trading" is a good readily available look at S/T in Ozz for around $au35 :

Some of my approaches include:

1: Opening a Position around 3.50 Friday for a Monday Closing near the Open
Most "Day Traded" Stocks are sold off on the Friday Close:

2: Limiting the Holding period to 1-5 days max
If the SP does not move within this period, it probably won't.

3: Opening a Position between 10.30- 11.30 and Closing 12.00 to 1.00.
The Opening Frenzy is over and if the SP is going to move you'll generally
end up with over keen Buys/Sellers during the Lunch Break.

4: Trading Shares with Dual US/AU listing
The SP will generally gravitate to the US price during the day.

5: Lock in profits quickly --- with CFDs you can just keep hoping in and out
for around $1 per $1000 per side.

Nothing high tech here.

Cheers

ducati916 · 18 December 2006

Coyotte

4: Trading Shares with Dual US/AU listing
The SP will generally gravitate to the US price during the day.

Based on arbitrage, this is most certainly true, +/- currency rates.

jog on
d998

tech/a · 18 December 2006

Good morning.
I see yogi has elevated me to guru status in his own mind once more.

I expect we shall not see any of Yogi's day trading expertise shared with the general community,sadly settling for competitions.

Yogi feel free to demonstrate and discuss picking "turns" in a trade. I cant do that with any tradable consistency and dont trade that way, I'm a buy high----sell higher trader.

Duc
Thanks for some discussion.

I agree with most of your points.
Particularly entry.

Just to set the record straight.

It appears that most here trade at least short term.
Discussion and some trading using ideas which have been adopted by others is the idea with this thread,in the hope that we may learn more about the fascinating opportunities presented with short term trading.

Whether you profit or lose in exercises like this there is always something to learn from them.

In my own short term trading I keep a diary.
Last month.
20 trades 11 wins 9 losses.
R/Ratio 4.3:1

So while I'm happy to stick my neck out you'll see both winning and losing trades.
A lot of the ideas I have been trading are similar to Rudds.
The book I have is by the look of it his first. Personally I loved the number of charts,I think visual is much easier to pick up.
I also have Joe Ross's works but like Rudd has been 5 yrs or so since I have read them.

As I dont wish people to get the idea I'm recommending buys or sells the charts I post will not have a code attached until after the trade has been completed.I will post both EOD and Tick/minute charts for discussion.

The whole purpose is to LEARN all of us nothing more---I welcome as does all in the community I'm sure all who contribute in a constructive manner.

Hopefully others will join in and be encouraged to do the same.
Presenting different methodologies from which we can all learn something.

tech/a · 18 December 2006

The first 2 I thought we could look at are based upon Rudds ideas of trading out of consolidation and above resistance areas.

Chart 1 is the daily chart of the subject stock.
Chart 2 is the tick chart.
Chart 3 is the tick chart of the second stock example.
These are all pre open of todays trading.
Trades would be taken at a breakout.
Rudd suggests waiting for the first 10 mins of trading to see how it settles from open. So does Joe Ross from what I can remember.
Looking at a chart 30 mins into trading will give us an idea of how his ideas pan out.
I also like to have a close look at volume.
You can clearly see the Volume explosion on Chart A.
And good support in Chart B
Charts with Bars are Daily.
Line are tick charts (every trade).

dhukka · 18 December 2006

tech/a said:
For the last 6 mths I have been taking this form of trading more seriously and have been embarressed at times sitting in my office while my staff very capably run my company while I have made a month of their salary in a few hrs----at times minutes.

I think it's comments like these that people like yogi-in-oz and myself find annoying. It is unsubstantiated and misleading. It's exactly the same as the guy (and we've all known one) who tells you how much he wins at the casino/racetrack/ but not how much he looses. I didn't see anywhere that tech/a has said he was an expert but he is implying through the above paragraph that he regularly makes significant significant sums of money quite easily via trading intra-day. Maybe yogi-in-oz was a out of line but tech/a's comments DO deserve a healthy dose of scepticism. If tech/a's claims are true then all the power to him but without any substantiation they are just noise.

yogi-in-oz · 18 December 2006

tech/a said:
Good morning.

As I dont wish people to get the idea I'm recommending buys or sells the charts I post will not have a code attached until after the trade has been completed.I will post both EOD and Tick/minute charts for discussion.

.

...... so what good is a chart, without an identity for
fundamentalists or discretionary traders, who barely
look at a chart ..... so, if you are for real, start everybody
off with the SAME information and indentify the stocks
from the outset, otherwise you are setting yourself up,
with an unfair advantage ..... yes???

Again, ego is taking over and the mouthy duck
sets himself up as instructor, where he really
only has 6 months of experience by his own
admission !~!

happy days

yogi

tech/a · 18 December 2006

I give up.

You win.

Have a great xmas everyone.

yogi-in-oz · 18 December 2006

So, just like trading folks, history repeats itself .....

..... only here we see somebody disagreeing with the
self-annointed guru on this forum and then, he throws
a wobbly to get some sympathy and the spotlight
is thrown on him and whether he should stay in the
capacity of forum guru or does he leave.

Just go tech, without all the fanfare this time,
that your ego just laps up, like mother's milk.

happy days

yogi

constable · 18 December 2006

This is a shame i was hoping there was going to be some really meaningful substance to this thread. The last 5 posts including mine have got no use whatsoever in relation to trading.

Julia · 18 December 2006

tech/a said:
I give up.

You win.

Have a great xmas everyone.

Tech,

I'm not interested in taking sides here, but don't know why you can't just ignore any comments you don't care for.

Perhaps the idea would have been better without your comment (which wasn't made for the first time) about making obscene amounts of money and many times more than your employees earn? Although to you this is obviously just stating a fact, it could come across as somewhat insensitive.

I'm getting a sense of deja vu here re a past similar personality clash.

It sounds like a worthwhile idea for those interested in this type of trading - pity to see it sabotaged by egos. Snake's comment was spot on.

Julia

coyotte · 18 December 2006

All may not be what it appears to be in the book tech/a is referring to -- read the readers reviews

From Method 4 from what I was refering to earlier , and U can also check this out in the GOLD thread --- was in LHG near the Open (long) and just Closed

God 20 trades in 6 mths -- I'm doing at least that a week
in day trading U got to have $$$ TURNOVER

KISS

Cheers

ducati916 · 18 December 2006

dhukka said:
I think it's comments like these that people like yogi-in-oz and myself find annoying. It is unsubstantiated and misleading. It's exactly the same as the guy (and we've all known one) who tells you how much he wins at the casino/racetrack/ but not how much he looses. I didn't see anywhere that tech/a has said he was an expert but he is implying through the above paragraph that he regularly makes significant significant sums of money quite easily via trading intra-day. Maybe yogi-in-oz was a out of line but tech/a's comments DO deserve a healthy dose of scepticism. If tech/a's claims are true then all the power to him but without any substantiation they are just noise.

Irrespective of the personality issues, daytrading is the HARDEST form of trading that there is. Most WILL fail, that is the sad truth. The vast majority would do better to stay with, or move towards longer term strategies.

The few that can be profitable daytrading, tend to be psychologically a different breed. There are no particular secrets to successful daytrading, just taking enough trades so that in the 50/50 mix of results, by cutting the losses fast, the return on the winners exceeds the losses.

Simple to explain, difficult to execute, and increasingly difficult as position sizes increase. At my peak, I traded 40 Futures contracts, or +/- $400/tick, this was my psychological limit.....I couldn't progress past this level and in point of fact.......I couldn't maintain the intensity required, thus, I modified my style and moved away from daytrading altogether.

I personally would not recommend daytrading to anyone. Too hard!

jog on
d998

vert · 18 December 2006

well done yogi, you seem to be the one looking for the spot light.
i read this forum as a source of information, whether it be yours or techs input i dont care i will decide for myself what i like and dont like. i have been following techs threads out of interest now you have stopped one that i am keen to learn more about because your ego seems to be in control tday. let the duck show his work and if you dont agree then let it be, im sure there are plenty of people who dont support your style, each to there own.

hopefully this thread can return back to the topic that was created in the first place.

blues · 18 December 2006

I totally agree with your comments Vert and I too was hoping to possibly learn something. Anything you learn on public forums like this needs to be verified by yourself to check its validity. Its like the saying "buyer beware'. If I wanted abuse I would go to HC.

Cheers.

noirua · 18 December 2006

I thought all the Day Traders died after the Dot-Com collapse. I remember the talk of making $50,000 a week. Some in the States committed suicide and a few went back and shot their work M8's. Dangerous game!

The true Day Traders bought at the start of the days trading and sold by the close - sometimes computer crashes prevented this. Unfortunately many went all-in each day and when the slide came many held on and forgot the rules.

Kauri · 18 December 2006

I remember the same sort of septicism when Tech Trader was initially proposed and developed by a community effort. Since it was finalised it has traded successfully and publically according to set mechanical rules.
Now we have a chance to work as a community on developing a daytrading method that may or may not result in a profitabe method, and back comes the septicism before it even gets off the ground. Septicism is fine, but try to make any criticism constructive and relative.

Bobby · 18 December 2006

tech/a said:
I give up.

You win.

Tech there are many that wish you to continue with this topic.

Don't give up.

Bob.

ducati916 · 18 December 2006

For those interested still, and there would seem to be some, here are two examples of daytrading the US.

http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000294

http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000313

It has a little bit of everything, winning, losing, and early mornings!

jog on
d998

yogi-in-oz · 18 December 2006

ducati916 said:
Irrespective of the personality issues, daytrading is the HARDEST form of trading that there is. Most WILL fail, that is the sad truth. The vast majority would do better to stay with, or move towards longer term strategies.

The few that can be profitable daytrading, tend to be psychologically a different breed. There are no particular secrets to successful daytrading, just taking enough trades so that in the 50/50 mix of results, by cutting the losses fast, the return on the winners exceeds the losses.

Simple to explain, difficult to execute, and increasingly difficult as position sizes increase. At my peak, I traded 40 Futures contracts, or +/- $400/tick, this was my psychological limit.....I couldn't progress past this level and in point of fact.......I couldn't maintain the intensity required, thus, I modified my style and moved away from daytrading altogether.

I personally would not recommend daytrading to anyone. Too hard!

jog on
d998

..... now, that's possibly the best post in this thread,
so far, duc !~!

Sure, we should explore and expand the boundaries
of our trading talents and capabilities, but we should
all be aware of the risks and higher stress, inherent in
the daytrading scene.

happy days

yogi

Bronte · 18 December 2006

Julia said:
Tech,
I'm not interested in taking sides here, but don't know why you can't just ignore any comments you don't care for.
Perhaps the idea would have been better without your comment (which wasn't made for the first time) about making obscene amounts of money and many times more than your employees earn? Although to you this is obviously just stating a fact, it could come across as somewhat insensitive.
I'm getting a sense of deja vu here re a past similar personality clash.
It sounds like a worthwhile idea for those interested in this type of trading - pity to see it sabotaged by egos. Snake's comment was spot on.
Julia

This is possibly just a little "Karma-phala"

Day traders ONLY - a continuing study

coyotte

ducati916

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

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noirua

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ducati916

yogi-in-oz

Bronte

Trading The SPI for 20+ years

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Day traders ONLY - a continuing study

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Trading The SPI for 20+ years

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