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Julia - can relate to what you are thinking as I am currentlly pondering a similar decision. I have a good Subaru Liberty but at my stage of life I am prepared to indulge myself by purchasing a prestige vehicle. In years past decisions like this would be made on a largely economic basis but this is something I want to do and probably will regret it if I don't. But I am not making this post to tell you what I am guessing you already know. I have found the Reviews in the Carsales.com and Drive.com websites very useful - in fact this one seems very relevant:

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/...bmw-320i-executive-v-mercedesbenz-c200k-11101

Another one that has attracted my attention recently is the VW Passat CC - also reviewed on these websites

Have come to the conclusion also that a near new or demo car is often better value than brand new.

As regards servicing, these are fairly infrequent and perhaps driving to Brisbane in a luxury vehicle for a day a couple of time a year might add to the pleasure.
 
Hi Julia,

I have come up with the perfect solution to your needs ..... Pup gets to feel the wind in its ears , You get to grin like a cheshire cat everytime you take it for a spin.
And best of all the less Klms you do the more it will worth in a few years time.

A win / win situation.
 

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Capital suggestion Nun,
and certainly better than beastly beemers shocking poor innocent canines.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/130296-bmws-war-on-dog-wee
BMW's war on dog wee
A dog may be man's best friend but a gleaming new car is often man's pride and joy – and never the twain should meet.

But careless canines now face a shock if they do their business over their owner's new Beamer.

Electric shock technology unveiled in the latest BMW should ensure no peeing poodle feels too ****-a-hoop after cocking a leg.

A pet who relieves itself over the new model's wheels will get quite a buzz out of it – as an unpleasant 200volts shoots through its body.

BMW described the invention as a shock to the system of any poor pets who may well be house-trained but not yet able to keep the driveway dry.......

April Showers: Dogs have been warned
 

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basilio said:
Congratulations on a very courageous decision to ask a largely male forum to advise you on buying a car. As you are no doubt aware we men know almost everything there is to know about cars and welcome every opportunity to spread our knowledge.....
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Ah, but basilio, I had every faith in the non-sexist attitude of ASF members and the responses I've received have justified this absolutely.
(Just one person felt obliged to moralise about the evil of my actually spending some money when there are starving children in Africa et al.)

And on the sexist thing I've been pleasantly surprised by not encountering this at all in contact with the dealerships. The Mazda manager said 70% of their customers are women which rather surprised me. They have all been really courteous and helpful.

I haven't heard anything about things going wrong much with BMW, but understand that servicing and parts are undoubtedly more expensive than a vanilla vehicle.
But, given my low kms, (1000 - 2000 p.a.) and the first service not being due until I've done 10,000 kms, I'm not going to let this be the decider.

Well, now, if it came with Morgan Freeman thrown in, I could very much be tempted.

I know what you're saying, jb, and when I had a company car in NZ I hardly used it when I wasn't working. Lived in inner city area, easy walking distance to everything.

Here, though, that's not the case and I do need a car.
Also, having spent years trying to save money in every aspect of life in the quest for financial security, those days are blessedly over, without being silly about it.
Also there's the dog factor, carting garden supplies etc.

Brian, that's it exactly.

Thanks, Brian. The only part of their criticism of the BMW that rather bothers me is the suggestion that 'the power steering seemed to have gone awol, so heavy was the drive'. This is the sort of thing I won't know until I drive one which I haven't yet.
Although Brisbane BMW assure me they're happy to drive the 300kms up here to show me car of my choice with no obligation, I'd feel pretty bad if I then rejected it.
Being too sensitive here, perhaps?

Have come to the conclusion also that a near new or demo car is often better value than brand new.
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Definitely. Am absolutely only considering used BMW. The very reasonable prices for vehicles, say 2 years old and with around 25 - 30,000 kms, are testimony to the rapid depreciation.

As regards servicing, these are fairly infrequent and perhaps driving to Brisbane in a luxury vehicle for a day a couple of time a year might add to the pleasure.
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Yep, might indeed. And as mentioned earlier, the first service is entirely complimentary, and they will come up here, collect the car, do the service, and return it to me.


Nun, you are probably too young to remember the Mercedes 350SL which in its day was a very stylish convertible.
The front two seats were large and comfortable, plenty of room, but in the back there was just the tiniest seat. We used to pack two children in this little back seat, the German Shepherd between them! Looked pretty funny, but we all enjoyed it on the rare days in Christchurch it was warm enough to have the top down.

I can see you have primarily the dog's interest at heart in this selection.


Logique said:
Capital suggestion Nun,
and certainly better than beastly beemers shocking poor innocent canines.
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Goodness, that's a bit tough on the poor dog!
My girl doesn't of course pee against anything, but much worse imo is the drooling down the windows.
 
Be careful for what you wish for Julia ! I think you should get a 1971 XY Ford station wagon. This way the German Shepherd can share the driving responsibilities.

 
Julia said:
But, given my low kms, (1000 - 2000 p.a.) and the first service not being due until I've done 10,000 kms, I'm not going to let this be the decider.
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I also do reasonably few kms (approx 10,000 p.a.) but have always understood that servicing, particularly on a vehicle under warranty, should be carried out every 10,000 km or each 6 months - whichever was the earlier - at least on a petrol fuelled car. I think my diesel requires less frequent servicing - actually just checked and it is every 15000 km or yearly - perhaps another aspect to consider?
 
I won't buy another BMW, cards on the table I've had 3 late model BMWs (two ///M's and a 335) and AMG Merc's. I've probably clocked around 200,000 km combined in them, perhaps a shade more.

BMW gouge you horribly on servicing, which there isn't much of and the parts are frightfully expensive. I never got the impression the build quality and reliability was there with the BMWs compared with Mercedes, I've no experience with Audi, but be prepared to reach into your pocket if you go with a propellor. The running joke at dealerships is BMW= Bring Money With you.

Good luck any which way! New car shopping is always fun.
 
Thanks DocK. Yes, you're right. But the first full service on the BMW only occurs at 10,kms, with basic oil change at every six months. The terms of their warranty don't require the six monthly oil change to be carried out by BMW, though of course the terms and conditions say the usual stuff about 'if non-BMW genuine parts are used and any problem occurs, the warranty may be void".

However, if I were to get a car which has used up its original warranty, this is I suppose less of a concern.

Thanks so much 1q2w3e4r. You're the first person who has actually been able to offer first hand experience, and your comments are really helpful.

I've dismissed Peugeot and Audi for various reasons, most importantly no dealership nearby and no offer to organise a test drive from another centre as BMW have been so ready to do.

So I'm definitely down to new Mazda 6 Wagon, or used BMW, with the black cloth interior in the Mazda changed to pale leather. I'd prefer a used one, but that eliminates the leather option. Talking to a woman today who has a 6 Wagon, she loves it except for the black interior which she dislikes, not least because it's hot in summer.
But this is around $3000 extra.

Spent about an hour at Mazda today, received great service, liked the car, but came away with no sense of excitement. Do I want to spend nearly $40K and not feel really enthusiastic?

Almost felt relieved when I climbed back into the old 626, dog slobbered windows and all.



trainspotter said:
Be careful for what you wish for Julia ! I think you should get a 1971 XY Ford station wagon. This way the German Shepherd can share the driving responsibilities.

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Too funny, TS. And my current young dog has already attempted to take on the driving position. I'd park to go into a shop, with her sitting in the back seat, and when I came out she'd be sitting pertly in the driver's seat.
Have since improvised a 'cargo barrier' tied behind the front seats as the only way to keep her in the back.

Perhaps I could offer the dog as a bonus on a trade-in with the 626!
 
Hi Julia, my very long two cents.

I drive what some would consider to be a bomb. It's a ford Festiva with over 200K on the clock. It used to be parked at train stations alot, and the station is near a school, so one door has a big bootprint in it and the bonnet has been keyed. I will drive this car till it's beyond hope of recovery, and then buy another small car that I will drive into its grave. My choice is based on economics in this circumstance.

My wife drives a less than three year old Ford station wagon, which I purchased for her. I chose the car because of it's 5 star ANCAP rating because I wish to protect what is most precious to me in my life and they spend a bit of time in that vehicle. When I replace that vehicle I may purchase a 4x4...not because I like them, but because the physics behind an accident mean that the only way my precious darlings are protected in an accident with a 4x4 is if they are also in a 4x4. I HATE 4x4's in an urban environment. My choice is based on safety in this circumstance.

Negotiating with Salespeople Secrets. (The addendum to this is never sell to a salesperson)

Julia the way you process the world is revealed in your speech and body language. Revealing this information to a salesperson means that they are able to influence/manipulate you into making a decision. Successful salespeople learn to recognise the type of person you are and act accordingly, because we feel most comfortable with people like me. They will then use techniques to guide you to a decision during negotiation.

People who are visually orientated (40% of the population) will say things like "I can see that. I can picture that. I can see myself in that." Salespeople accordingly will use language to stimulate that portion of brain when dealing with you... "Picture yourself watching this T.V." by saying those simple words you've just imagined a big screen T.V sitting in your house, the salesperson already has the product through the front door in your brain...see what happened? By relating to you in the language you prefer to use yourself the salesperson is very subtly making himself appear more like you.

People who are Kinesthetic (40% of us) (they like to do things) will say things like "What can I do with this, what connects to this T.V How does it interact with other things" the salesperson can identify this language and uses language in turn. "Think about using this T.V. Think about the functionality of the product, this t.v has better functionality".....get the picture?

Last is Aurally orientated (20%) we like to hear things, will say things like
"I've heard such and such about this product. The review I heard on this product, when I spoke to my friends about this product......" Once again the Salesperson knows how to influence you by using language that appeals to the way you take in information.

So if you really want a cheap product (be it a car, T.V. or whatever) you need to put the salesperson on the defensive, you need to guide them into doing what you want. In the above circumstances they are subtly in control, able to guide you. So turn it around on them and make them react to you. Start out Visual, and when they use visual language to you, switch to Kinesthetic or Aural language. The salesperson will then think he's pegged you wrong and change tactics, and then you change again and again. They are generally so confused they don't know what to do. Now you can begin negotiations because they are following you.

Have fun

Sir O
 
Julia.
Nothing wrong with some indulgence.
Buy whatever takes your fancy (and your dogs!)
and Enjoy it.

Its only money and life is but fleeting.
 
Hi, Sir O: that's all fine, and I completely get what you're saying.
However, I'm not about any of that at this stage. If I were I'd simply stick with the current old but very adequate Mazda 626.

Negotiating with Salespeople Secrets. (The addendum to this is never sell to a salesperson)
Click to expand...
Indeed. I may not have mentioned that most of the latter part of my working career was as Sales Training Manager for a multinational pharmaceutical company. I know how it all works.

The sentiments I've expressed on this thread are not necessarily mirrored in my approach to car sellers.

Julia the way you process the world is revealed in your speech and body language.
Click to expand...
Only if I'm not aware of this and fail to behave accordingly.

I appreciate that this is the conventional thinking, but I'm not easily persuaded into anything I haven't already decided I want.
Rest assured that no salesperson is going to be talking me into something that doesn't fit my preconceived desire.


Actually, to be quite fair to both BMW and Mazda, they've recognised that I'm not especially, um, malleable, and have been very straightforward.
I've also made sure to talk about them, why they are in the job, what they like about it, what they dislike, i.e. regarding them in a personal sense rather than just as a salesperson. This is simply a version of the age old theory of building a relationship by showing an interest in a person as an individual.
Works just as well from the buyer's point of view as the seller's imo.

What I am very happy to accept from them is genuine answer to my concerns, e.g. I do not want dog hair clinging to carpet in tailgate of wagon.
So the salesperson offers to throw in rubber floor mat fitted exactly which will solve this problem. Good. He has solved one of my concerns, so that's a genuine tick for making a sale.



Well put, Sir O. Though I'm not about 'wanting a cheap product'. This is simple self indulgence.

At the same time, having experienced some of the vicissitudes of a sales career myself, I have considerable respect for a genuine salesperson, who actually does listen to a potential buyer's needs and attempts to offer a solution.
There's no way I will accept any suggestion that doesn't fit the criteria I have in mind.

I have no difficulty, though, in thanking someone who has genuinely tried to be helpful in the face of my pickiness, and who has refrained from insulting me with pressure tactics.


(A funny aside on just this: I don't much like Fords, but idly walked through a Ford dealership a couple of weeks ago. Young salesman came out, smiled patronisingly and made a pretence of listening to me. Amongst what I said was that I just hate small cars. Five minutes later he asked if I'd considered a Getz!! If they're not the smallest car on the market, they'd be close to it.
No idea how people like this keep their jobs.


Have fun

Sir O
Click to expand...
Thanks, Sir O. Your thoughts are much appreciated.


tech/a said:
Julia.
Nothing wrong with some indulgence.
Buy whatever takes your fancy (and your dogs!)
and Enjoy it.

Its only money and life is but fleeting.
Click to expand...

Ah, you get it, doncha, Tech!
Thanks.
J.
 
Hi Julia

I bought a new car recently - Honda Accord Euro Luxury. A wholesaler friend referred me to 3 specific dealers. Mentioning his name lead to reasonable prices well below RRP.

At 11am on a Saturday, with yards closing at 1pm, I phoned all 3 [telling each I was phoning the other 2]. I stated that I would accept the best offer submitted that day - specifying all the features I wanted.

I'm not at home at the moment [travelling] but ended up with the vehicle many thousands under the RRP. On that Saturday several more thousands came off the prices already given.

Only the third new car I've bought after 48 years of driving and the intention is to keep it for a long time as we do few miles unless pulling a caravan with our larger vehicle.

Best wishes

Rick
 
Julia said:
Indeed. I may not have mentioned that most of the latter part of my working career was as Sales Training Manager for a multinational pharmaceutical company. I know how it all works.
Click to expand...

Excellent - so I can go into advanced sales techniques and hopefully won't be teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. That is an excellent technique to use Julia but in terms of these negotiations, you are not attempting to establish a relationship for future interaction, (Unless you intend on buying a lot of BMW's ). In this circumstance the salesperson and you are at polar opposites. The salesperson wants you to pay as high a price for the vehicle as possible because it directly influences his/her remuneration. You want to pay as little as possible because then you have that money to do other stuff. (unless you really don't care about price and can't be stuffed negotiating on your indulgence). As such do you really give a damn what the salesperson thinks of you when you are unlikely to ever see them again? In this type of negotiation I normally take the nice-guy gloves off. As my wife said recently. "You are a bastard and I hate shopping with you. Thank-you for my new dishwasher."

Agreed, but I would call this "service" rather than "sales". I want Service, I don't want sales. Yeah that is just slack
Thanks, Sir O. Your thoughts are much appreciated.
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No charge

Cheers

Sir O
 
Hi Rick, good that you were able to do such a satisfying deal.
It's a bit more difficult when I'm in a smallish regional town with only one Mazda dealership and the nearest BMW dealer is Brisbane about 350kms away.
We haven't begun any negotiations yet, because I've yet to decide whether to go BMW or the Mazda 6 Wagon. On the latter, they've already offered as their starting point around $3500 off RRP. I've said I'll come back to them if I don't go ahead with BMW.

A friend has the same Honda you've acquired, and she's very pleased with it.
Happy travelling.

Perhaps not, but I don't see a negotiation process (which we have yet to begin) as something which has to exclude pleasant human interaction, and of necessity needs to be aggressive.

There is, to use an old cliche, more than one way to skin a cat.
Different negotiating styles may equally achieve the desired end result.

And I am actually genuinely interested in why people do what they do and how they like/dislike their work.

In this type of negotiation I normally take the nice-guy gloves off. As my wife said recently. "You are a bastard and I hate shopping with you. Thank-you for my new dishwasher."
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And clearly you wear the label of being a bastard toward the salesperson with pride. I usually find it's possible to get what I want without being oh so tough.

I do not need to buy a car. Several posters on this thread clearly think I'm nuts to be considering it, given the low kms, carting around of dog etc. And they're quite right.

The car salespeople are equally aware of this and I'm quite sure they realise unless I'm happy with what is ultimately offered I'll simply walk away.

I'm quite sure you don't mean to be either sexist or patronising, Sir O, something - incidentally - I've not experienced at all from either BMW or Mazda.

I'm having a bit of a smile at you, the caring financial planner/adviser, making clear the role sales technique plays in your own industry.

Agreed, but I would call this "service" rather than "sales". I want Service, I don't want sales.
Click to expand...
My point was that a salesperson who has listened to my need and offered a solution has a tick in his favour.
 
Get one of those new hyundais that look like a bmw and change the badge or just get a honda legend if you can afford a brand new bmw best luxury value
 
Update for anyone who has been kind enough to offer input:
Spent some time with a 320i owner and her car today.
One of my difficulties was only having seen photos on the net, as BMW's are rarely seen here, unlike in a larger city.

I was, to be honest, quite underwhelmed in terms of size and interior space.
Back seats do not fold down and dog in back seat would be breathing down my neck, so small is the rear seat area, way smaller than I have at present in the old Mazda.
Boot is also extraordinarily shallow, precluding carrying higher items. Owner says this is a real problem.

She has done 40,000 kms and needs to replace a tyre. Cost over $500.

Her daughter is 5'10" and rarely drives the car because she simply hasn't enough room in driver's seat to be comfortable, even with seat as far back as possible.

So, some disadvantages I'd not anticipated.
Actually the spacious Mazda 6 Wagon looks a lot more appealing in comparison. So surprising.

Thanks for earlier suggestions re Audi and Hyundai. Have looked at a local Audi and it wasn't what I am looking for, though a lovely car. Hyundai: yes, I know they're much improved. Just have zero appeal for me.
 
Hi Julia,

Got myself a Mazda 6 wagon at the beginning of July. Being driven by my wife, 19 yr old son and myself and, early days yet, but we are all very happy with it.

Love the huge cargo area. Great to buy a BBQ or piece of furniture and cart it straight home yourself.
 
Thanks Julia,
nobody can accuse you of not doing the research. It's the old cliche 'repent at leisure' so take your time over it.
 
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