Boat People

Chris45 · 31 October 2009

nomore4s said:
I just would have thought there would be a bit more understanding and compassion for people who are a lot worse off then us and are desperate to escape to a better life.

This is the sort of pathetically weak attitude that I just can’t understand!!!

There are currently two boats with Tamil ‘refugees’ demanding to be allowed into Australia. If we go soft now and allow them in, what message does that send to the millions of other asylum seekers, not to mention the billions of other poor people around the world, desperately wishing for a better life? Already more than 90% of the 'queue jumping' asylum seekers who come to Australia illegally by boat win refugee status, at the expense of others who are trying to do the right thing by applying at an embassy and patiently waiting their turn. My sympathies are definitely with this latter group.

So, say we let this lot of Tamils in without question. The Indo fisherman, who make small fortunes from each boatload of impatient and aggressive goodlifeseekers will be spurred to encourage more and more of them to make their way down. What an excellent way for the Indos to get rid of their leaky old fishing boats and replace them with nice brand new ones, maybe even with special provision for paying passengers. So, as the word quickly spreads that we Australians are a really soft and incredibly generous bunch of fools, the current trickle of boats will rapidly increase to a flood. The message will go out to every goodlifeseeker around the world to forget about the embassies, just burn all of your documents and make your way to Australian waters by what ever way you can. Let them know when you arrive and make sure you have some young children with you who can be taught to make tearful appeals to the media which will tug at the heartstrings of the limp-wristed loony lefties, and these wonderful Aussies will send a nice beautiful ship to pick you up and take to their ‘promised land’.

No, adopting a soft attitude now would be sheer insanity! Forget about our population reaching 35 million by 2050. We would reach that figure before 2015!!!

I agree with what noco said and I would like the Rudd government to be very firm with these Tamils and all other future boat people. These Tamils should now be given two choices: either you disembark now or we take you back to Sri Lanka.

Julia · 31 October 2009

nomore4s said:
Pilots you've missed the point of my post, I'm not saying let them in or greet them with open arms. Like I said I have no idea of how best to handle them.

It's just some of the comments highlight to me what sort of society we are becoming and I find it pretty sad really.

In all fairness, nomore4s, I think you, in turn, have missed the point of some of the posts you're objecting to.

No one is saying they're leaving a life of milk and honey, but you could look at millions of people whose lives are not as good as we have here.
Why does that mean you should not apply for admission to Australia by the established UNHCR channels? How is that fair to the people who have been patiently waiting their turn?

This is, as far as I can tell, what many posters here are on about, myself included.

You say that you have no idea how best to handle them. So, to be quite fair to those you are criticising for their lack of compassion, I'd suggest you need to think about it a bit more and come up with some way of ensuring
that your desire to be compassionate doesn't unreasonably penalise Australians who have been, e.g., waiting years for dental treatment, non-emergency hospital care, somewhere to live.

Do you think Australia should be building accommodation to house immigrants from boats or via air (doesn't matter which imo), while we continue to have thousands of Australians homeless?

Or perhaps you'd like to see taxes doubled to pay for all this extra care when - as would be totally inevitable if there are no limits on admitting anyone who wants to come - the hundreds turn into millions.

Wysiwyg · 31 October 2009

There must be a word being passed around that it is possible to get through. These people are directed here by shepherds it would seem. For a small fee of course.

nomore4s · 31 October 2009

Julia said:
In all fairness, nomore4s, I think you, in turn, have missed the point of some of the posts you're objecting to.

Julia, I'm not objecting to all the views posted on this subject more to some of the comments made, and again I'm not saying we should take them in.

My posts might have come across the wrong way. I'm not saying we are showing a lack of compassion by not letting them in or making it difficult for them to obtain residence here.

What I was saying is that some of the comments on here have be lacking some compassion and understanding of their situation and how desperate most boat people are, that's all. Maybe my background and people I grew up with have given me a different outlook to most here.

Most of the responses to my posts have responded in the same vein so it is obvious my posts didn't come across the right way. I'm under no illusions about the infrastructure problems facing Australia and again I'm not saying let them in or open our doors to everyone who wants to land on our shores because there is no doubt we can't afford to do that.

nomore4s · 31 October 2009

Julia said:
No one is saying they're leaving a life of milk and honey, but you could look at millions of people whose lives are not as good as we have here.
Why does that mean you should not apply for admission to Australia by the established UNHCR channels? How is that fair to the people who have been patiently waiting their turn?

This is, as far as I can tell, what many posters here are on about, myself included.

As far as I can tell my posts haven't disagreed with any of this and it was not what I was objecting to.

You say that you have no idea how best to handle them. So, to be quite fair to those you are criticising for their lack of compassion, I'd suggest you need to think about it a bit more and come up with some way of ensuring
that your desire to be compassionate doesn't unreasonably penalise Australians who have been, e.g., waiting years for dental treatment, non-emergency hospital care, somewhere to live.

Do you think Australia should be building accommodation to house immigrants from boats or via air (doesn't matter which imo), while we continue to have thousands of Australians homeless?

Or perhaps you'd like to see taxes doubled to pay for all this extra care when - as would be totally inevitable if there are no limits on admitting anyone who wants to come - the hundreds turn into millions.

Again I'm not sure how all this was drawn from my posts, I thought I had stated quite clearly that I wasn't saying take them all in no matter what the consequences would be.

It is starting to become obvious to me that when I said more understanding and compassion it has been taken as - we should let them all in.

Julia · 31 October 2009

nomore4s said:
It is starting to become obvious to me that when I said more understanding and compassion it has been taken as - we should let them all in.

OK, I think I am starting to get it: you don't like the way some people have been categorical about not wanting these people here, and you find these people unkind and lacking in decency for not expressing sympathy to the boat people?

So - and I'm just trying to understand what exactly you are wanting to say here - you would like us to be sorry for them, understanding of their desire to come here to live, but to turn the boats back?

If I still have this wrong, could you clarify exactly how you would like Australia (the government) to handle the present situation and any future arrivals.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I know you to be a decent and thoughtful person, so I'm just trying to get some clear understanding of what those on the left think should be Australia's plan to handle this situation.

mellifuous · 31 October 2009

Chris45 said:
These Tamils should now be given two choices: either you disembark now or we take you back to Sri Lanka.

Great idea - but, make sure the 'Oceanic Viking' tows a bloody big net behind it to jag all the rest of the boats heading this way.

Sort of 'trawling for tamils' - might even get a few nice fish.

Tink · 1 November 2009

nomore4s said:
I'm mildly surprised at how many unsympathetic and selfish people there are around.

Some of the comments here are pretty sad imo. You would think these boat people are leaving nice, stable lives and are coming here for a free ride. Most of these people are leaving behind atrocious living conditions in hope for a better life with chances they could be dead before they even reach here and if they do reach here be sent straight back home. They could also end up in debt to the people smugglers who they might be paying back for the rest of their lives. And most of them do this to give their families & children a chance at better lives.

From my experience most of the ones who are lucky enough to stay end up contributing a great deal to our society and put in a lot of work to make the most of the opportunity given to them.

I'm not saying let them all in or have no entry requirements etc etc, because tbh I don't have all the answers. I just would have thought there would be a bit more understanding and compassion for people who are a lot worse off then us and are desperate to escape to a better life. If any of us were in the same positions would we be any different? I don't think so.

Good post nomore4s - I agree with you

As I said up above, its always the same rigmarole (thanks Wayne) when it comes to immigration in this country, but then we are paying baby bonuses to fill it.

mellifuous · 1 November 2009

Tink said:
Good post nomore4s - I agree with you

As I said up above, its always the same rigmarole (thanks Wayne) when it comes to immigration in this country, but then we are paying baby bonuses to fill it.

good point Tink, no point continuing on our own generations when we can bring in different races/cultures/religions.

thinking about it, it does seem quite stupid to encourage women to have babies, have them grow up mostly educated and integrated. The cost must be enormous.

the boat people are mostly all grown up and ready to go.

you're right, dump the baby bonus and bring in the boat people.

quite logical when it's thought out.

Tink · 1 November 2009

mellifuous said:
good point Tink, no point continuing on our own generations when we can bring in different races/cultures/religions.

Why, do you live in their house?

What do you care what people do?

If it doesnt affect you and they are working, then its none of your business.

caribean · 1 November 2009

I find it very hard to read all these comments and not reply, you know the funniest thing about this whole argument is :most of our ancestors were boat people

Nomore4's, i agree with your comments .

Baby bonus?? you have got to be joking!

mellifuous · 1 November 2009

Tink said:
Why, do you live in their house?

What do you care what people do?

If it doesnt affect you and they are working, then its none of your business.

Tink,

I responded to what I thought was a carefully thought out argument.

Your questions herein are thought provoking and deserve careful consideration.

I'll try to answer them in context with the thread, but forgive me if I'm unable to do so.

noco · 1 November 2009

Those 78 Sri Lankans on the Oceanic Viking who state they left Sri Lanka since the Tamil Tigers were defeated, have been living in Indonesia for years according to the latest Sky News this morning.

Just might be what KRudd is looking for to let him off the hook. No doubt he will insist they are Indonesia's responsibility.

Who knows what this will lead to in relations between Australia and Indonesia!!!!???

Tink · 1 November 2009

mellifuous said:
Tink,

I responded to what I thought was a carefully thought out argument.

Your questions herein are thought provoking and deserve careful consideration.

I'll try to answer them in context with the thread, but forgive me if I'm unable to do so.

Thats fine.

Maybe we should follow those 500,000 bonuses they handed out just this year and see how many do so well as you say

Tink · 1 November 2009

caribean said:
I find it very hard to read all these comments and not reply, you know the funniest thing about this whole argument is :most of our ancestors were boat people

well said

mellifuous · 1 November 2009

Tink said:
Thats fine.

Maybe we should follow those 500,000 bonuses they handed out just this year and see how many do so well as you say

oh, no.. let's not give out anymore bonuses, they don't deserve them .. let's just let the boat people in.

I'm all for compassion (please disregard my statements about 'tow the tamils', fire up the F-111s)

I'm a new convert to transferring millions of non-descripts from Sri Lanka to Australia.

I've seen the light. I've become compassionate.

Opps, I forgot, how about all those poor Chinese women who are forced to have abortions - we should bring them here too.. Should we allow them in with their families? but not give them the bonus.

And wait, there's more.. and more .. and more..

But, you're right, it's best to be compassionate.

Julia · 1 November 2009

Tink said:
Good post nomore4s - I agree with you

As I said up above, its always the same rigmarole (thanks Wayne) when it comes to immigration in this country, but then we are paying baby bonuses to fill it.

Tink, you've separately said that you like the idea of big populations.
Do you have faith that state and federal governments will adequately supply the infrastructure to support a population which is more than double what we have now? You know, those things that are causing us worry at present like not enough water, gridlocked traffic in our cities, dysfunctional public transport, inadequate and increasingly dysfunctional health system, etc?

Obviously allowing the current 78 people to come into Australia isn't going to make any difference to anything in a purely practical sense. But what is concerning some people is the question of establishing this as a precedent, whereupon asylum seekers the world over will see Australia as an easy access new home.

So are you OK with that? Do you want to see unlimited access for anyone at all into Australia? Where will all these people be accommodated (a) while they are being checked, and then (b) while they are learning English, trying to find work etc? Are you happy for us to pay considerably more tax to fund all this, plus the building of the additional infrastructure?

Don't you think just allowing anyone who dictates that they will only disembark a ship if it's into Australia, nowhere else, even just for processing, is a bit unfair to those people who have been waiting for years in a refugee camp somewhere, having applied to come to Australia in the conventional way?

I'm all for assisting genuine refugees to come to Australia and giving them every possible assistance. But I'm uncomfortable when people - in any area of life - try to circumvent a system that others in good faith have followed.

mellifuous · 1 November 2009

Julia said:
I'm all for assisting genuine refugees to come to Australia and giving them every possible assistance. But I'm uncomfortable when people - in any area of life - try to circumvent a system that others in good faith have followed.

Are you for supporting the millions of women who are forced to have abortions in China every year?

Do you realise how many 'genuine' refugees there are in this world?

There are millions and millions of people who would be properly called 'refugees'.

It's clear we can't bring everyone here - so, how do we 'cull'?

Do we accept the ignorant because they are they most in need, or the physically deformed, or those who have terminal illnesses like aids? there are millions in africa.

Surely compassion should go to the most needy?

Our tax rates (if we pay them) are amongst the highest in the world that's because we're a socialist country and wealth is spread .. so, get prepared to spread a bit more --

remember, we've this wonder tax exercise arising out of the 'climate change' once known as 'global warming' - global warming suffered a bit when it was found the earth was cooling, but climate change should be a sound basis for a tax since the climate is always changing.

The costs of electricity and water are rising - rego is rising, insurance is rising, rates are rising, land tax is up.

then you're got governments selling utilities which in the end simply cost us all more in the future.

Couple that with a proportion of australians who couldn't work if they were connected to iron lungs.

remember too that we'll need more hospitals and we can't afford the ones we have - more transport, schools, special care .. no problems, ruddy dud dud will fix it - more tax.

This is the wonderful new age of being compassionate.

Let's enjoy it - I'm pleased I'm not paying much tax these days ...

Just wait for the taxes to come on the rich, then they'll leave.. and then what will it be? The middle class looking after the poor.

Soon it'll be the compassionate looking after the poor - the way god meant it to be.

Chris45 · 1 November 2009

caribean said:
you know the funniest thing about this whole argument is :most of our ancestors were boat people

True, and they arrived here under a very orderly and disciplined immigration system.

Wysiwyg · 1 November 2009

...

So are you OK with that? Do you want to see unlimited access for anyone at all into Australia? This already exists across the Tasman. Where will all these people be accommodated (a) while they are being checked, and then (b) while they are learning English, trying to find work etc?"Robots" has a portfolio of well regarded properties in which modest rental rates are charged and English education could be as simple as grasping the correct pronunciation of "fish and chips". Work is not really required due to our generous social security system so no need to look for any. Besides that they don't need to upset the locals by taking their jobs. Are you happy for us to pay considerably more tax to fund all this, plus the building of the additional infrastructure?That is a nice thought and would make a lot of people happy.

...

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