Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Which ETF to hedge against BBOZ?

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Hi all,
First question here - If my thoughts are that the ASX will decline over the next 6 months or more and have moved in to BBOZ (geared bear fund). What suitable ETF would be good to mitigate some of that risk. A standard A200 or VAS or something else and what ratio should I consider between the two?

Thanks
 
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Hi all,
First question here - If my thoughts are that the ASX will decline over the next 6 months or more and have moved in to BBOZ (geared bear fund). What suitable ETF would be good to mitigate some of that risk. A standard A200 or VAS or something else and what ratio should I consider between the two?

Thanks

Hi.

Good question.

Just checked, no ETO's on this underlying. Without options / futures or a similar geared bull fund this could be tricky, have you considered reducing your exposure by the equivalent amount you wanna hedge ?
 
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Hi.

Good question.

Just checked, no ETO's on this underlying. Without options / futures or a similar geared bull fund this could be tricky, have you considered reducing your exposure by the equivalent amount you wanna hedge ?
yes i'm long in GOLD (which is my interpretation of a hedge against everything in the stock market) as well and currently have no other exposure in ASX. Long on NASDAQ but only put in probably 60% of allocated funds, as I anticipate a drop before it picks up in 12-18 months or so, and will probably buy in 6-8 months time. I know DCA isn't the best approach but i'm struggling to read current economy indicators (unemployment etc. vs current market growth)
 
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I didn't particularly want to go leveraged growth as that would cancel out BBOZ right? That is why initially I was thinking about potentially going in to a vanilla ETF like A200 or VAS as a potentially way to soften the BBOZ loses if the market doesn't dip?

I guess I could just set up a ratio 1:2 GEAR:BBOZor something and create my own hedge
GEAR best i could find vs BBOZ
 
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I am green as grass but I bought a bit of BBOZ last week.

Any opinions on my ignorance and naivety.

bux
after 3 years here ( ASF ) you shouldn't be that green

now by a 'bit' i am hoping that is less than 10% of your portfolio AND you still have some cash reserves

in which case i cannot see a major flaw in your plan

from memory you cannot borrow against BBOZ ( or BBUS ) that would have been dangerous ( at least with my two trading platforms )

however you should go back and research BBUS to see what can go go wrong with a long term holding in a similar product

the current market is completely nuts and could easy climb to 10,000 points for no good reason ( say the RBA goes for negative rates flushing cash and term deposits into the stock-market and lifting the XJO , just trying not to leak money )

IMO BBOZ is suitable for short term ( less than 6 month holds )

on the positive side if BBOZ wins big for you ( in a market crash ) selling will put cash in your trading account right when it could be very useful

cheers
 
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It'll probably pay, but you missed most of the shorting opportunity already.

Thank you for your reply @over9k I was looking at it as a longer term hold (but not that long if it moves against me) if that makes sense. It was mainly to gain a feel for how it all works practically.
One thing it has taught me is that to buy BBOZ I actually have buy it speaking a real person broker but I am not sure that is the case with all brokers ? Maybe a problem if it all turns pear shaped :thumbsdown:

Thanks for your time

bux
 
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Thank you for your reply @over9k I was looking at it as a longer term hold (but not that long if it moves against me) if that makes sense. It was mainly to gain a feel for how it all works practically.
One thing it has taught me is that to buy BBOZ I actually have buy it speaking a real person broker but I am not sure that is the case with all brokers ? Maybe a problem if it all turns pear shaped :thumbsdown:

Thanks for your time

bux
I can buy bboz and gear directly..beware that some of these etf can actually be priced and purchased sold just before open it seems or at open, regardless of alphabetical order.
Something i was not aware
 
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Thank you for your reply @over9k I was looking at it as a longer term hold (but not that long if it moves against me) if that makes sense. It was mainly to gain a feel for how it all works practically.
One thing it has taught me is that to buy BBOZ I actually have buy it speaking a real person broker but I am not sure that is the case with all brokers ? Maybe a problem if it all turns pear shaped :thumbsdown:

Thanks for your time

bux
i didn't , i bought and sold via both Commsec and Bell Direct ( both no frills accounts ) and taps on the keyboard

although i did OK on all three ( BEAR , BBOZ and BBUS ) , BBUS went badly against me the last time ( and THEN consolidated )

luckily it was an affordable lesson

good luck
 
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I can buy bboz and gear directly..beware that some of these etf can actually be priced and purchased sold just before open it seems or at open, regardless of alphabetical order.
Something i was not aware
as far as i can tell all the ETFs open up at the beginning of the market ( regardless of ticker code ) but some don't trade until a buyer/seller hits the market-maker's price

which is rather intriguing how an index fund can gauge NTA promptly at open ( futures reliant ETFs , yeah sure , but STW or VAS , c'mon man )
 
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after 3 years here ( ASF ) you shouldn't be that green

now by a 'bit' i am hoping that is less than 10% of your portfolio AND you still have some cash reserves

We are probably a similar age maybe you are slightly older (not that I see that as a problem);).

I have been self employed now for 45 years and I have found the times I get into trouble coincides in my life with when I thought I knew something.

Yes it is less than 10% and Yes

however you should go back and research BBUS to see what can go go wrong with a long term holding in a similar product

Yes I can see from the charts both BBOZ and BBUS have been on a steady decline for many years with the obvious exceptions.

When I started my share market journey I was trying to build a portfolio that was a holding of capital gains so as to lessen payable tax implications.......not sure that makes sense. My Accountant has problems grasping the concept as well.

I have been so slow with my 1 finger typing there has been replies above :thumbsdown:

So thank you everybody .....I have a Commsec application form on my desk as they are the only online Australian Brokers accepting NZ clients.

All the best and if nothing else it certainly keeps the brain active.

bux
 
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We are probably a similar age maybe your are slightly older (not that I see that as a problem);).

I have been self employed now for 45 years and I have found the times I get into trouble coincides in my life with when I thought I knew something.

Yes it is less than 10% and Yes



Yes I can see form the charts both BBOZ and BBUS have been on a steady decline for many years with the obvious exceptions.

When I started my share market journey I was trying to build a portfolio that was a holding of capital gains so as to lessen payable tax implications.......not sure that makes sense. My Accountant has problems grasping the concept as well.

I have been so slow with my 1 finger typing there has been replies above :thumbsdown:

So thank you everybody .....I have a Commsec application form on my desk as they are the only online Australian Brokers accepting NZ clients.

All the best and if nothing else it certainly keeps the brain active.

bux
the concept isn't hard once you realize BBOZ and BBUS are both based on derivatives so there are no real assets underlying ( unlike say VAS , or MVB which have baskets containing real shares ) but that is NOT always the case even with ETFs that bet on positive moves in the market

it REALLY pays to read all the tiny details on EVERY ETF you consider buying , those tiny details can make a BIG difference to your outcome ( don't stop at the fees , read the lot of it and any related documents )

PS , don't forget your NZ companies some of them have been rather good as well ( just not very liquid on the ASX )

good luck
 

over9k

So I didn't tell my wife, but I...
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Yes I agree but I am not sure how to access good NZX charting software and data ?

Thanks

bux
There's a site called "tradingview" that I and many others use that has a free version and it lists most of the world's major exchanges, indices etc :)
 
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as far as i can tell all the ETFs open up at the beginning of the market ( regardless of ticker code ) but some don't trade until a buyer/seller hits the market-maker's price

which is rather intriguing how an index fund can gauge NTA promptly at open ( futures reliant ETFs , yeah sure , but STW or VAS , c'mon man )
For info:
1632090473491.png

and
1632090545914.png

SO notification sent at the very open, but believe me, if you change the order at 9:58 it is too late, the last picture looking supposedly at the ASX200 which is not really open or significative yet.
Anyway,hope it helps
 

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There's a site called "tradingview" that I and many others use that has a free version and it lists most of the world's major exchanges, indices etc

Hi @over9k,

Yes I have found Trading view and find their Screener very good. I feel a little guilty not paying them a subscription but find it a little confusing as to what extras you get. I suppose I should just bite the bullet ?.
Stockcharts is another one that has some very interesting people with interesting commentary but appears limited to the US markets.
There is another Website https://www.tsaasf.org/ that I found very recently that looks extremely interesting.

Thanks again

bux
 
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