• Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Hello and welcome to Aussie Stock Forums!

To gain full access you must register. Registration is free and takes only a few seconds to complete.

Already a member? Log in here.

Most liked posts in thread: Where is the pro-business chat?

  1. Zaxon

    Zaxon The voice of reason

    Posts:
    800
    Likes Received:
    868
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Agreed. And while cutting wages is great for business profits, there also needs to be well paid customers who can afford your products.
     
    CanOz, fiftyeight and cynic like this.
  2. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

    Posts:
    10,682
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    One reason is complacency which is rife in Australia.

    Another would be that many likely do realise that you can’t cut your way to prosperity but they don’t have an alternative proposal.
     
    fiftyeight and cynic like this.
  3. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

    Posts:
    13,833
    Likes Received:
    3,570
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    People like the ex directors of AMP should be required to pay their salaries and bonuses back after all the damage they've done.
     
    Craton and Value Hunter like this.
  4. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

    Posts:
    10,682
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Management plays a huge role in the public service.

    I once had the experience of seeing a change of manager result in pretty much the entire workforce going from "above and beyond" to "race out the door" in their outlook and in due course anyone who had a credible plan B left.

    That was in the PS as such, not any business etc owned by government (eg power industry) as those have a culture much closer to that of the private sector.

    Similar management situations do arise in the private sector, indeed the individual I'm referring to did exactly the same thing in their two previous jobs which were private not government.

    Often this is dressed up as cost cutting, efficiency improvement etc but what it leaves is a shell operation which has driven out any real skill and commitment on the part of staff and which ends up costing an outright fortune through mistakes, lost productivity and so on. It might recover someday but not within a decade.

    There's at least one listed company I'm aware of trying to rebuild its skill base following a period of that approach. No comment as to who that is. :2twocents
     
    Craton and cynic like this.
  5. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

    Posts:
    13,833
    Likes Received:
    3,570
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    They have to mark their territory like an animal and justify their position otherwise it's an admission that someone else did a good job.
     
    Smurf1976 and sptrawler like this.
  6. Zaxon

    Zaxon The voice of reason

    Posts:
    800
    Likes Received:
    868
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    To add some perspective to this, I decided to compare the cost of the taxi fare vs Uber on the same sample trip near where I live.

    Taxi: $30
    UberX: $19-25
    Discount: 27%

    Let's compare this to the first grocery item that came into my head - the humble meat pie from Woolworths, pack of 4.

    Four N Twenty: $5
    Woolworths: $3.50
    Discount: 30%

    Is Woolworths dumping pies on Australia to drive FNT out of business? Few people would argue that. Are FNT overcharging for their pies, and WW is simply charging a "reasonable" price? That's how I'd see it personally.

    So is Uber is using predatory pricing, or are Taxis simply overcharging? I honestly don't know. What I do know is that in the pie world, there's enough room for multiple brands priced massively differently. So if taxis want to survive, they need to be the Four N Twenty pie: convince the public that they're a premium service worth paying 27% extra for.
     
    sptrawler and qldfrog like this.
  7. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

    Posts:
    13,833
    Likes Received:
    3,570
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    That is certainly Labor's argument and it's hard to disagree with it.

    If burdens on households increase in excess of wages, discretionary spending decreases which is bad for business.

    It's amazing to me that payroll tax still exists in this country. One of the most stupid taxes ever invented, a tax on employment.

    Abolish it and make wage rises more affordable for business.
     
    qldfrog likes this.
  8. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

    Posts:
    7,207
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    I would guess the vast majority of us are pro business, in the sense that it is business that provides all the goods and services we need.

    But I don’t think being pro business makes you anti labour.

    I mean in my opinion a “good business” is one that provides its owners a decent return on their capital employed, while providing their employees with decent returns on the labour they provide and the customers more value in return than the cash they hand over for the products.
     
    SirRumpole likes this.
  9. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

    Posts:
    7,207
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    It happens more than you think.

    It’s just in some cases people have unreasonable expectations about how big their piece of the pie should be, and often discount the value contributed by other groups.

    (All sides are guilty of this)
     
    SirRumpole likes this.
  10. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

    Posts:
    7,207
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    On average workers are better off today than in the 1950’s.

    Work places are safer,
    work loads are easier,
    Benefits are higher,
    And each hour of labour purchases far more goods and services than before.
     
    CanOz likes this.
  11. Zaxon

    Zaxon The voice of reason

    Posts:
    800
    Likes Received:
    868
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Vaguely for me too. I'm happy enough to pump my own fuel. And I actually prefer self serve checkouts at supermarkets, although having to bring my own bags to pack my groceries...that's a definite service drop right there.
     
    qldfrog likes this.
  12. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

    Posts:
    10,682
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    I'd be happy with that if we're talking about long term performance not short term.

    There's a few too many "make it look good then move on before it falls in a heap" types around for my liking.

    As an example of that I'll point to the Whyalla steelworks. One man from overseas manages to see opportunity and make things happen where however many Australian managers in that and all sorts of other manufacturing industries have failed dismally over an extended period. The rest should be paid what they're worth - around $60K a year as a basic office worker.

    No doubt there are some good CEO's around but quite a few seem to manage to do nothing more than hire a consultant to tell them to close the place. Any clown could do that, you don't need to pay more than $30 an hour for that.

    For the few with actual ability and vision - sure, pay them well. :2twocents
     
    cynic likes this.
  13. Craton

    Craton Mostly passive, contrarian.

    Posts:
    659
    Likes Received:
    62
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    I'd suggest that using "the average worker" as a term of reference is far too broad a generalization.

    The way I see it and from a point of view of living and working in both locales, is that those living/working in the bush have a different attitude than the coastal cousins, hippies and Red's included, with regards to business.

    Now, if you take the workers in public service work (health, teaching etc) I can virtually guarantee that their perspective is more skewed towards the negative sentiment. Now don't get me wrong, I personally know people that come knock off time, they are outta there right on the siren but then, I know of so many that balance that out by staying behind and going above and beyond.

    Also, those starting out on a working career have a different set of expectations.

    Negativity.
    As an e.g. we had Big W close down here locally and those loss of jobs didn't just impact those employed. Due to less foot traffic in that shopping precinct, several other businesses closed the doors in a few short months that followed so yes, there was negativity towards Big W in that sense.

    I think businesses whether public or private are far more valued in the bush and seen largely as a positive more so than in metro areas. This brings me to another point and that is, how getting to and from work and the type of lifestyle one leads impacts on this pro-business discussion.

    in 1981, the travel to and from my 1st job in Sydney "cost" me (on a good week) about 16hrs via car five days a week. Two whole days out of five so I could eck out a meagre existence. No, public transport was out as it would've meant one bus and a train change at Central and that was just one way and bugger knows how much more time it would take. I didn't blame the boss or his business or felt negative towards him. In fact I felt lucky to have a job but I sure was negative towards that travel time!

    Share ownership may or may not skew ASF members perception. I personally don't think it does because a share is just a commodity, to be bought and sold so positive or negative thoughts would be on whether to take a profit or a loss or simply to hold. If those thoughts are emotive, then that's a different kettle of fish altogether.

    I would make this assumption though, peoples' attitudes towards anything, would stem from their character type, their personality (glass half full or empty) and their socio-economic background, their peer groups, single or in a relationship and a whole bunch of other influencing factors. To paint a broad stroke labeling most (average) workers as negative towards business and that we are mostly pro-business is such a varying variable that a consensus or constant is out of reach. Perhaps we need a poll...
     
    cynic likes this.