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What happened to the music?

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When I first discovered music, it was the radio - we had one in the the family's FC Holden and it was fun watching Dad try and tune it into the next town's radio station as we travelled from Sydney to Gundagai to vist the rels'.

At home we had a big 3 in 1 black and white TV with a radio/record player in a lid at the left 3rd of the cabinet, the big "clunk" through the speakers as the valves kicked into life when the power/volume switched was rotated was sort of fun.

Dad had a lot of country and western stuff, mum had records from Holland - they were a bit weird, but good to play for friends just for the look on their faces :)

Later on, Dad got a reel to reel tape player - Magic Eye and all, tring to thread the thing up was a bit of pain, and rewind was the best part of all - gee that thing to spin the reels fast!

I still have a few of the 8 track cartridges from dad's car stereo upgrade - still country and western at that stage.

Then came the cassette player from Philips - gee those Dutch really shrunk it down - still sounded pretty good though, went from picking the hair and dust off the record player stylus to getting out with a cotton bud soaked in metho to clean the heads.

I remember getting my first record player and mucking around recording from records to Cassette, and radio to cassette, then playing them in the car, then the tapes would get hot on the dash and stretch and jam etc. - we've all been there - right?

Then came component stereo with high performance cassette players with equalisers and little displays showing the stereo channels with the LED bar graphs - wow that was fun.

The record player was still there though, with better stylus's (styli ?) linear tracking, balanced tone arms etc - still sounded better than a tape - and the guy that had the latest Marantz turntable with the strobe speed adjustment was the coolest room to be in...

Then there was the speakers, who had the biggest, the more watts (thank you James), cossovers, tweaters, woofers, bass reflex - all that jargon..

I remember the CD coming out when I was in the Airforce back in the '70's, wow it sounded so clear and so easy to make copies - no need now to have a dual tape player. The record player guys started making a fuss about how the CD, although very clear, just wasn't the same - something about digital square waves missing the harmonics that only analog could produce...

I think I have around a thousand records I can't play because my record player died, all my tapes are stretched and heat affected that they sound like a 45rpm being played at a variable 45-33rpm.

My CD's are all still good, and I am still buying them.

Enter the world of MP3. WTF - are we going backwards here, the frequency response is worse than AM radio.

We used to strive for better and better quality sound, we used to spend thousands on audio equipment.

Now we spend $300 on an MP3 player and steal the music off the internet, compressed and bastardised and are satisfied- what has happened??

We could talk about photography in a similar way, there is no digital camera that comes close to the density range (Dmax) and resolution that film provides, but we embrace this.

Very strange this technology era of ours
 
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When I first discovered music, it was the radio - we had one in the the family's FC Holden and it was fun watching Dad try and tune it into the next town's radio station as we travelled from Sydney to Gundagai to vist the rels'.

At home we had a big 3 in 1 black and white TV with a radio/record player in a lid at the left 3rd of the cabinet, the big "clunk" through the speakers as the valves kicked into life when the power/volume switched was rotated was sort of fun.

Dad had a lot of country and western stuff, mum had records from Holland - they were a bit weird, but good to play for friends just for the look on their faces :)

Later on, Dad got a reel to reel tape player - Magic Eye and all, tring to thread the thing up was a bit of pain, and rewind was the best part of all - gee that thing to spin the reels fast!

I still have a few of the 8 track cartridges from dad's car stereo upgrade - still country and western at that stage.

Then came the cassette player from Philips - gee those Dutch really shrunk it down - still sounded pretty good though, went from picking the hair and dust off the record player stylus to getting out with a cotton bud soaked in metho to clean the heads.

I remember getting my first record player and mucking around recording from records to Cassette, and radio to cassette, then playing them in the car, then the tapes would get hot on the dash and stretch and jam etc. - we've all been there - right?

Then came component stereo with high performance cassette players with equalisers and little displays showing the stereo channels with the LED bar graphs - wow that was fun.

The record player was still there though, with better stylus's (styli ?) linear tracking, balanced tone arms etc - still sounded better than a tape - and the guy that had the latest Marantz turntable with the strobe speed adjustment was the coolest room to be in...

Then there was the speakers, who had the biggest, the more watts (thank you James), cossovers, tweaters, woofers, bass reflex - all that jargon..

I remember the CD coming out when I was in the Airforce back in the '70's, wow it sounded so clear and so easy to make copies - no need now to have a dual tape player. The record player guys started making a fuss about how the CD, although very clear, just wasn't the same - something about digital square waves missing the harmonics that only analog could produce...

I think I have around a thousand records I can't play because my record player died, all my tapes are stretched and heat affected that they sound like a 45rpm being played at a variable 45-33rpm.

My CD's are all still good, and I am still buying them.

Enter the world of MP3. WTF - are we going backwards here, the frequency response is worse than AM radio.

We used to strive for better and better quality sound, we used to spend thousands on audio equipment.

Now we spend $300 on an MP3 player and steal the music off the internet, compressed and bastardised and are satisfied- what has happened??

We could talk about photography in a similar way, there is no digital camera that comes close to the density range (Dmax) and resolution that film provides, but we embrace this.

Very strange this technology era of ours
IMO we have become a throw away society, whats current tech this year is obsolete the next.
Quality has gone out the window really..............the kids will rag you next year for the latest gizmo there mates have........... whilst whinging about the current piece of crap you have that you shelled out plenty for the year before:cautious:.

China's doing well out of it though, whilst 'hoards of plebs' get hocked up keeping up with the Jones's!
 
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IMO we have become a throw away society, whats current tech this year is obsolete the next.
Quality has gone out the window really..............the kids will rag you next year for the latest gizmo there mates have........... whilst whinging about the current piece of crap you have that you shelled out plenty for the year before:cautious:.

China's doing well out of it though, whilst 'hoards of plebs' get hocked up keeping up with the Jones's!
I wonder if "we" should be "them" as the the throw away society? When I bought my last mobile phone, I couldn't get a high end phone without a digital camera and MP3 player, I didn't want that crap, I just wanted a phone - go figure.

I can't buy a GPS with the mapping features I want without paying for voice directions to places I don't want to go to - sort of useless on a motorcycle.


I can't go to Hardware House and buy the best this, that or other - because thay only stock the cheapest crap that most want.

I can't import and stock the best products around because people want to buy the cheapest of "xyz" catagories

People won't support retailers with better products, food or whatever, they just want cheap, cheap, cheap - get what you pay for. Problem is you get to the point the where if you want a better product it won't be available anymore
 
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What's your point?

You can still buy great quality turntables... Actually there has been a huge resurgence in turntables as our modern DJs want to "keep it real" and go back to their roots. How many thousand do you want to spend on a turntable?

MP3 defies the throw away society. You are utilising data... What are you throwing away?

I rip all my CDs at the highest rate available. My old mp3 player has a 40gb capacityand was bought in January 2005 for $300. I still use it as a transfer hard drive. My phone now takes micro sd cards that are $5gb these days. I have 12 of them. Being micro sd I can actually keep them in the back casing of my pda phone.

Digital SLR cameras have come of age in the last 2-3 years... The CCD on the newer canon, nikon and the like DSLRs are awesome.. You'd have to be dreaming to still be using film these days...They are comparable to 35mm film. Why would you even concern yourself with film except for nostalgia. Nostalgia is great (I still love riding my bevel drive ducati) but you are talking cutting edge..

So again, what was your point?


cheers,
 
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I can't go to Hardware House and buy the best this, that or other - because thay only stock the cheapest crap that most want.

I can't import and stock the best products around because people want to buy the cheapest of "xyz" catagories

People won't support retailers with better products, food or whatever, they just want cheap, cheap, cheap - get what you pay for. Problem is you get to the point the where if you want a better product it won't be available anymore
Can't agree, Roland..

Hardware house? They were consumed by the big green boxes weren't they? Last I looked they were selling DeWalt electric tools, good quality BBQ and the like along with the cheap end of town.

Can't import the best stock? You have the outlet in the wrong socio economic region... People are still paying $400 for Armani sunglasses when the servo still sells $12 knock offs.

People will support local suppliers! Even in redneck Townsville there are shops selling gourmet, yes gourmet dips and breads and cheeses at a HUGE premium. If it can happen in a city where people go grocercy shopping barefooted and bare chested, it can happen anywhere...


Cheers,
 
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What's your point?

You can still buy great quality turntables... Actually there has been a huge resurgence in turntables as our modern DJs want to "keep it real" and go back to their roots. How many thousand do you want to spend on a turntable?

MP3 defies the throw away society. You are utilising data... What are you throwing away?

I rip all my CDs at the highest rate available. My old mp3 player has a 40gb capacityand was bought in January 2005 for $300. I still use it as a transfer hard drive. My phone now takes micro sd cards that are $5gb these days. I have 12 of them. Being micro sd I can actually keep them in the back casing of my pda phone.

Digital SLR cameras have come of age in the last 2-3 years... The CCD on the newer canon, nikon and the like DSLRs are awesome.. You'd have to be dreaming to still be using film these days...They are comparable to 35mm film. Why would you even concern yourself with film except for nostalgia. Nostalgia is great (I still love riding my bevel drive ducati) but you are talking cutting edge..

So again, what was your point?


cheers,
The point would be that whateva the gadget you bought today is at best obsolete in a couple of years with a bigger/better/cheaper one replacing it.
Thats not to mention replacement technology renedering todays items trash.
Plenty probably shelled out heaps for HD DVD, they probably won't even be able to buy media soon.

Even 'dewalt drills' are crud build nowadays, its not to far off when warranty jobs will be a thing of the past and 'replacements' will be standard across the board.

Geez even my kids Doc Marten school shoes are made in china nowadays.
 
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Freeballin',

with all due respect.. Tradies are still using DeWalt on sites. If DeWalt weren't cutting the mustard, so to speak, tradies wouldn't be buying them. Simple as that.


By the numbers of HD DVD sales I'd suggest you are wrong... Btw there is a great option to buy a great upscaling dvd player for a terrific price now Toshiba is pulling out..They still play standard dvd.

Doc martins are made in china, Harley Davidson is partly owned by Honda bla bla bla..

It's a bit rich on a share market forum where you are ultimately looking for profit to be complaining about the very core of consumerism..

Take senco tools as a juxtaposed concept. They are floundering in the market because their products are too damn good. Nothing went wrong with their tools. There are still tools our there being used after decades of use. They have basically cut their own throat in the market. Their market share is gone and now they have cheapened their manufacturing product range and now they no longer have the brand quality and they no longer have market share..Would you be happy with them for taking the moral high ground and creating unbreakable tools therefore creating lost sales if you were a share holder?



cheers,


cheers,
 
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Freeballin',

with all due respect.. Tradies are still using DeWalt on sites. If DeWalt weren't cutting the mustard, so to speak, tradies wouldn't be buying them. Simple as that.

By the numbers of HD DVD sales I'd suggest you are wrong... Btw there is a great option to buy a great upscaling dvd player for a terrific price now Toshiba is pulling out..They still play standard dvd.

Doc martins are made in china, Harley Davidson is partly owned by Honda bla bla bla..

It's a bit rich on a share market forum where you are ultimately looking for profit to be complaining about the very core of consumerism..

cheers,
Ive got nothin against china :D, but I'm not naive enough to believe the ducks nuts camera I own today, won't be replaced by me getting sucked into buying one with double the specs next year lol.

still stick to the arguement that were in a throw away society, gone are the days when youre t.v lasted for ten years, cause all that was on offer was ..............another color tv at the store:D

I'd never buy a dewalt drill again though as I'm still waiting for a warranty fix job from before xmas to come back.
If youre from west oz..........neva take a warranty job to the 'toolstore' in Balcatta :mad:.
 
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I still own around 300 records and a couple of technics turntables from my days as a dj - nothing beats the sound of a record being played on a quality turntable through a component stereo system. I still have my hand built Rotel amp and my handbuilt mission speakers. (when i bought my speakers they were made to order - you had the choice of three types of wood - had to wait three weeks while they assembled them and shipped them from England) The sound mapping is amazing. You put some classical on and if you close your eyes you can picture exactly where each member of the orchestra is standing! truly sublime!

For portability Mp3 is ok but the quality is ****e!
 
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I don't think CD's ever were about quality for most. For Joe Average consumer, they never bought speakers good enough to give any real advantage over vinyl (or even cassette in most cases) anyway.

They went for CD because it was easier. No more messing about with cleaning records and the stylus, the old FF / Stop / Play / Stop / FF / Stop / Play / Stop / Rew / Stop / Play routine trying to find a particular song on the tape and so on. CD was simply easier and that's the sole reason it became so popular with consumers in my opinion.

Quality matters for 5% or less - it wasn't as if the average rock / pop music listener had real issues with the quality of mass produced cassettes and plastic box speakers anyway. And those consumers absolutely dominate music sales (look at the charts).

Same with DVD. It's smaller, less trouble and so on. Oh, and the picture's better than VHS too but that was a minor consideration for most who connected their first DVD player to a 4:3 CRT TV.

Agreed that MP3 sound quality isn't great and that digital cameras aren't either. But they're good enough now for the vast majority of consumers and it's been that way for a while. The convenience factor alone massively outweighs, for most, the loss in quality just as it did when cassettes took sales from better sounding vinyl.

It's much like the argument that says BBQ food is best cooked over real charcoal. But in reality gas is easier, cheaper, usually safer and it's good enough for most. Hence gas BBQ's became very popular. But you can get charcoal if you want it.

Or like saying that a rotary mower doesn't cut the grass as well as a cylinder. That's true, but the ease and simplicity of the rotary mower combined with an iconic local manufacturer made it a winner with Australian consumers. And the end result is good enough for most unless you really are maintaining a cricket pitch or bowling green. And if you are maintaining a criket pitch you can still get a cylinder mower.

Agreed with what you're saying overall though, quality isn't in fashion. Even simple things like (for example) light bulbs. For industrial use it's easy to get 13,500 hour bulbs but the ones at the supermarket last just 1,000 hours. Or industrial halogens at 17,000 hours versus 2,000 hours for the ones in your kitchen. Even the 6,000 hour energy savers in the store are poor quality compared to the 20,000 hour type that can easily be (and is for some uses) made.

But, and here's the point, when faced with a choice between a $4 (wholesale price) 13,500 hour bulb or a 50 cent 1,000 hour bulb, I'd bet that 90% of consumers will buy the cheap one for 50 cents. That's the mentality of most consumers - buy whatever's cheap or fashionable and don't worry about actual product quality.
 

Wysiwyg

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They went for CD because it was easier. No more messing about with cleaning records and the stylus
As I have some records that I would like to listen to while driving or on computer yesterday I was looking at a record to CD recorder from ION.It transfers direct to CD or through PC.All in one picture below.

The other options apparently are to go from turntable through a pre-amplifier to PC and converting software.
 

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Wysiwyg

Everyone wants money
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It's much like the argument that says BBQ food is best cooked over real charcoal. But in reality gas is easier, cheaper, usually safer and it's good enough for most. Hence gas BBQ's became very popular. But you can get charcoal if you want it.

Or like saying that a rotary mower doesn't cut the grass as well as a cylinder. That's true, but the ease and simplicity of the rotary mower combined with an iconic local manufacturer made it a winner with Australian consumers. And the end result is good enough for most unless you really are maintaining a cricket pitch or bowling green. And if you are maintaining a criket pitch you can still get a cylinder mower.
This is because we care not for the finer things in life.Something to do with the predominantly lower class and convict settlement ancestory.
 
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It is about convenience.
We all trade off excellence for practicality every day.
Why would I, or most over 35's be bothered with a high end sound system that delivers the full 20-20K Hz audible range when our hearing is mostly shot and lucky to pick up 75% of that range.
Why would I spend a small fortune waiting to have countless rubbish pictures developed and printed perfectly from film.
As we know, only about 10-20% are worth keeping.

The pursuit of excellence and "the finer things" is still available and active, it just doesn't suit most peoples needs and has zero to do with "lower class convict beginnings"
 
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It is about convenience.
We all trade off excellence for practicality every day.
Why would I, or most over 35's be bothered with a high end sound system that delivers the full 20-20K Hz audible range when our hearing is mostly shot and lucky to pick up 75% of that range.
Just a quick note here - although you may not have good enough hearing to pick up the full 20-20 range, you will also be missing out on the harmonics that recordings of a lesser range would produce. e.g. a 20KHz signal mixed with say a 15KHz signal would give you resultant frequencies of 20, 15, 35 and 5KHz

.... and these are just the basic harmonics, there are also a whole range of more subtle minor harmonics that would be produced.

So sure, you will miss out on the frequencies your buggered hearing wouldn't register anyway, but you will also be reducing the sound from frequencies that you would have heard - had you had a better source for your music.

This is very basic high school science - then again, maybe we had better schooling back in my day...
 
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