Westpac online broking - any problems?

[shortlist]

Gday all

I'm planning on getting set up with a few trading platforms (Westpac, Commsec, Etrade and Bell Direct) to test them all out. Number 1 is Westpac - and so far I have encountered a few problems - (thanks kam75 for putting me in the trail). First, if I am reading the site correctly you cannot order a stop loss when you enter a position, but have to enter the position and then navigate to the conditional order tab and set it up there. Am I right on this? If so this seems pretty inconvenient to me. Second, when they send that SL order to the market it goes through at limit, which presents the possibility of my shares not selling to anyone and me being stuck with them.

So, to the pros and those with more experience of Westpac: am I right in these assumptions, and if so are there ways round them, or should I just set up with another online broker with a better website??

Once again, thanks to all who take the time to read this and help me out.

 

[nomore4s]

Shortlist,

If you're serious about trading and want to use stops and trigger orders etc etc I would forget about Westpac, Etrade and Commsec.

The best broker imo is Interactive Brokers - cheap brokerage and great trading platform. If you want to stick to a chess sponsored broker imo the one to look at is Macquarie Prime - it has a good trading platform which allows stops, triggers etc etc for no extra charge and with brokerage at $20 per trade is comparable with Westpac, Etrade & Commsec.

 

[shortlist]

Shortlist,

If you're serious about trading and want to use stops and trigger orders etc etc I would forget about Westpac, Etrade and Commsec.

The best broker imo is Interactive Brokers - cheap brokerage and great trading platform. If you want to stick to a chess sponsored broker imo the one to look at is Macquarie Prime - it has a good trading platform which allows stops, triggers etc etc for no extra charge and with brokerage at $20 per trade is comparable with Westpac, Etrade & Commsec.

Thanks a lot for this nomore4s. I'm not blown away with the Westpac broking site, although their customer service is good. Also they charge $25 per trade as well. I'll look into the two you mention - what are the main advantages/disadvantages of chess sponsorship? Thanks again mate - and yes I am serious.

Also you say about "if" I want to use stops - aren't these things used by everyone? Some of my papertrading has involved positions bought and sold in minutes, and with very low share prices like 0.025, etc. - are SLs really appropriate for this kind of fast-paced small cap speccie trading?

 

[nomore4s]

Not everyone uses stops.

If trading over a couple of minutes you probably don't need stops but that is something you need to answer for yourself.

Not sure re:Chess you'll have to look it up. I have all my longer term holdings with a chess sponsored broker as it is easier to follow up the d/e payments, things like capital raisings (SPP), voting rights etc etc.

The Mac Prime customer service is also excellent and since I've been using them (for about 18months) I've never been unable to log in during trading hours and close or open trades unlike commsec.

 

[shortlist]

Not everyone uses stops.

If trading over a couple of minutes you probably don't need stops but that is something you need to answer for yourself.

Not sure re:Chess you'll have to look it up. I have all my longer term holdings with a chess sponsored broker as it is easier to follow up the d/e payments, things like capital raisings (SPP), voting rights etc etc.

The Mac Prime customer service is also excellent and since I've been using them (for about 18months) I've never been unable to log in during trading hours and close or open trades unlike commsec.

Thanks for this - I'm going to look into Mac Prime first I think. Should I want to use a SL am I able to order this when I enter the position with Mac Prime? If I understand the website correctly I have to wait until I have entered the position with Westpac and then navigate to another tab to set up the SL, which seems like a bit of hassle to me.

 

[nomore4s]

Yes you can set a stop when you enter the original order and you then can cancel, amend and add a stop loss at anytime.

I would recommend having a serious look at Interactive brokers as well - min brokerage of $6 can make a big difference to you bottom line.

 

[skyQuake]

Yes you can set a stop when you enter the original order and you then can cancel, amend and add a stop loss at anytime.

I would recommend having a serious look at Interactive brokers as well - min brokerage of $6 can make a big difference to you bottom line.

+1. Not to mention free conditional orders.

However IB has a few issues at the moment (Corporate action scalebacks, unable to put orders in for stocks that move too much etc)

For absolute ease of use, a CFD provider would be good. Just be aware how dangerous leverage can be though.

 

[marknz88]

Another option could be www.thinkminc.com.au although its a bit pricey ($33), it does allow you to make up to 12 trades per day within one stock for the one contract price (helpful if making lots of scalps/scaling into positions) and uses IRESS which is at the better end of AUS platforms...(although personally I preferred IB's paltform and ability to use ninjatrader, they wouldnt give me a margin account being a student which ment I had to wait t+3 for settlement before I could trade again which = a big no no for me and something to be aware of when setting up your account type)

 

[shortlist]

I had to wait t+3 for settlement before I could trade again which = a big no no for me and something to be aware of when setting up your account type)

Thanks for the advice mark. What do you mean about having to wait? I understood T+3 to mean all money had to be transferred in whichever direction within three days after the trade? But how did this stop you trading with other funds while waiting for the settlement to come through - or were you trading each position with all your capital??

An example - say I have $100,000 in my trading account, and enter a position with $10,000 on Monday and make $500, my trading account balance will be $90,000 until Wednesday when it will become $100,500 (minus fees, etc). I can still trade throughout the rest of Monday and Tuesday can I not???? Thanks again mate. I thought everyone was T+3 anyway - which brokers do not do this allowing you to trade more frequently and not have to wait for settlement?


Also - your thinkminc suggestion - you mean you get 12 trades per day in one stock for $33 in total?

 

[marknz88]

When you sign up with IB theres 3 account types you can apply for (cash, reg t margin and another margin account type)

Being a uni student and not earning over 50k salary I was only allowed to open a cash account which I thought was fine until I wanted to sell my holding and buy another on the same day (I was always fully invested as my accounts sub 20k). With all my previous brokers where I had cash accounts, once you sell they credit your account the amount and your free to trade instantly (the cash will settle in 3 days time if you want to withdraw any of it). But with IB cash accounts they dont credit your account with the sell value. Instead you have to wait for the cash to actually settle 3 days later before your able to trade again.

So in your example of a 100k account, you would be fine to trade as long as you weren't 100% invested, in which case you would have to wait for the cash to settle 3 days later. But with most normal brokers, once you sold the stock on monday, you would be able to instantly purchase 100,500 worth of stock afterward.

And with thinkminc the total cost would be $66 ($33 for purchasing and $33 for selling) for up to 12 trades i.e 6 buys and 6 sells within the same day of the same stock. Only good if your trading say BHP in and out more than 10 times in a day (anything less than 10 and IB would be cheaper)

Hope that makes a little bit more sense haha

 

[skc]

Thanks a lot for this nomore4s. I'm not blown away with the Westpac broking site, although their customer service is good. Also they charge $25 per trade as well. I'll look into the two you mention - what are the main advantages/disadvantages of chess sponsorship? Thanks again mate - and yes I am serious.

Also you say about "if" I want to use stops - aren't these things used by everyone? Some of my papertrading has involved positions bought and sold in minutes, and with very low share prices like 0.025, etc. - are SLs really appropriate for this kind of fast-paced small cap speccie trading?

If you are playing with fast-paced species scalping stuff... wouldn't dynamic prices be a must?

Westpac's platform has the technology from the early 1900s. The order placement is slow, data is not dynamic and brokerage is high. It's really only suitable for longer term investing type transactions imo.

IB or Webiress based CFD are definitely worthwhile. Minc sounds interesting but I'd do some serious background checking before trusting them with your money.

 

[marknz88]

Minc dont hold your funds, they access it via a Macquarie CMT account

Never had any problems with them myself. But they are a boutique broker (i.e. dont cater to the masses like commsec/etrade do) which has its positives (better service, better trade ideas) and negatives (higher price)

 

[shortlist]

If you are playing with fast-paced species scalping stuff... wouldn't dynamic prices be a must?

Westpac's platform has the technology from the early 1900s. The order placement is slow, data is not dynamic and brokerage is high. It's really only suitable for longer term investing type transactions imo.

IB or Webiress based CFD are definitely worthwhile. Minc sounds interesting but I'd do some serious background checking before trusting them with your money.

Thanks to mark and skc for your replies. I currently have a Westpac trading account but this is purely because I already have a Westpac account so it was easier and quicker for me to set it up. After listening to you and some readin as well I am beginning to realise than Westpac might not be the best fit for my style of trading - fast in and out speccie scalps, mainly.

Have you (skc or mark) got any suggestions of a good webiress based CFD? A question I have is this: I do not want (and don't need) to rely on credit or leverage of any kind, so am I able to have a CFD platform that allows me to use my own money without leverage? Still unsure as to how this works. Can I request to open a CFD trading platform but only with my own cash?

Thanks guys - hot one here in Adelaide today 39 and aircon not working properly so have pity.

 

[nomore4s]

Thanks to mark and skc for your replies. I currently have a Westpac trading account but this is purely because I already have a Westpac account so it was easier and quicker for me to set it up. After listening to you and some readin as well I am beginning to realise than Westpac might not be the best fit for my style of trading - fast in and out speccie scalps, mainly.

Have you (skc or mark) got any suggestions of a good webiress based CFD? A question I have is this: I do not want (and don't need) to rely on credit or leverage of any kind, so am I able to have a CFD platform that allows me to use my own money without leverage? Still unsure as to how this works. Can I request to open a CFD trading platform but only with my own cash?

Thanks guys - hot one here in Adelaide today 39 and aircon not working properly so have pity.

Shortlist I still think Mac Prime is the way to go for you, is set up like a CFD provider but you can choose how much leverage if any you use, has a live data feed with live charts that go right down to 1 min, only thing is it might be a little more expensive then CFD's on the brokerage side.

With most CFD providers you use leverage no matter how much is in the account but you shouldn't be charged interest unless you hold overnight.

 

[shortlist]

Shortlist I still think Mac Prime is the way to go for you, is set up like a CFD provider but you can choose how much leverage if any you use, has a live data feed with live charts that go right down to 1 min, only thing is it might be a little more expensive then CFD's on the brokerage side.

With most CFD providers you use leverage no matter how much is in the account but you shouldn't be charged interest unless you hold overnight.

Thanks yet again nomore4s...! You have successfully persuaded me to take a look at Mac Prime - it sounds like it's what I'm after and if I recall correctly you said it was CHESS sponsored as well? I'm going to give them a go - and just the very same day I finally get the Westpac account up and running and ready to go........

 

[The Triangle]

Anyone else having issues with Westpac this morning? Don't think I've done that badly in the market today as you can see from my screenshot. There's been a warning up on the website for a few days but nothing more.

On a related note - should this be enough for me to toss westpac and move back to commsec or am I being a whiny little b:tch? I still have an empty commsec account which I'm using right now to look at quotes.

 

[divs4ever]

that looks like a glitch to me , but i was still asleep when that screenshot was taken so can't give a comparison with Commsec or Bell Direct at the time.

HOWEVER if you had of been leveraged ( a margin loan ) that would have sobered up many a WBC customer ( assuming they hadn't already been woken up by a margin call warning )

 

[Country Lad]

On a related note - should this be enough for me to toss westpac and move back to commsec or am I being a whiny little b:tch? I still have an empty commsec account which I'm using right now to look at quotes.

Westpac has been having a few problems of late. Their Trader Pro (Java based WebIress) hasn't worked properly for weeks. A couple of people I correspond with have given them the flick and gone to NAB, mainly because Westpac, unlike NAB, has so far refused to change to the Viewpoint version of Iress which is not Java based.

 

[The Triangle]

Westpac has been having a few problems of late. Their Trader Pro (Java based WebIress) hasn't worked properly for weeks. A couple of people I correspond with have given them the flick and gone to NAB, mainly because Westpac, unlike NAB, has so far refused to change to the Viewpoint version of Iress which is not Java based.

Thx. Prices have come back and holdings look correct now, but there is still a warning on the holdings page - not sure I can trust westpac for the time being. There is and was nothing in the mobile app to indicate there were any issues. No emails, no texts to indicate any issues.

Just noticed commsec commissions have either gone up or changed in the past few years? Over $30k its' 0.12% vs 0.11% for westpac, anz, hsbc, and nab. NAB does seem to have the best structure of the lot with the 0.11% kicking in at 20k.

Wish the ASX was nationalised and run at cost or small profit rather than run for profit. Governance is garbage and fees are too high.

 

[frugal.rock]

Wish the ASX was nationalised and run at cost or small profit rather than run for profit. Governance is garbage and fees are too high.

I dont know how they have a monopoly like this in this day and age.
One of the few exchanges where data is expensive or delayed by 20 minutes.
I don't think their systems are up to the task anymore.

Don't forget, all trading was abandoned on a normal trading day late last year after they failed to test an update properly.

As for Westpac, using the phone app, I have noticed that when things get a little busy, the course of sales/ trade data is often delayed by anything up to 20 minutes... almost like like they are being throttled data wise. It makes ticker style/Wyckhoff methods impossible for short term day trading...

A modern day DONKEY, with no admissions or recompense to customers.
Their fee structure and lack of staying up to date with software for customer use, will come back to haunt them as more and more customers move to other cheaper and more reliable platforms.