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USA ousting governments they don't like: What happens afterwards?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by basilio, May 2, 2017.

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  1. basilio

    basilio

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    Most people are aware that the US routinely exercises it's God given right to decide the Government that leads countries in which it has an economic interest. Have you ever wondered how this comes about and the longer term consequences of such interventions ?

    I was doing some research recently and came across the story of the Banana massacre in Colombia in 1928. Short story was that workers attempted to organise themselves in Colombia to improve their appalling conditions at the hands of the United Fruit Co and ended up being machine gunned at the behest of the US government. United Fruit controlled much of Central and South America through it's extensive plantations. In 1944 there was a democratic change of government in Guatemala but the US decided they were not acceptable and organised a coup in 1954. The consequences were a bloody 30 year civil war.

    Banana massacre
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Banana massacre
    220px-Workerbananamassacred.png
    Leaders of the banana plantations workers' strike. From left to right: Pedro M. del Río, Bernardino Guerrero, Raúl Eduardo Mahecha, Nicanor Serrano and Erasmo Coronel. Guerrero and Coronel were killed by the Colombian army. Fis
    The Banana massacre (Spanish: Matanza de las bananeras[1] or Masacre de las bananeras) was a massacre of workers for the United Fruit Company that occurred on December 6, 1928 in the town of Ciénaga near Santa Marta, Colombia. After U.S. officials in Colombia, along with United Fruit representatives, portrayed the worker's strike as "communist" with "subversive tendency", in telegrams to the U.S. Secretary of State,[2] the United States government threatened to invade with the U.S. Marine Corps if the Colombian government did not act to protect United Fruit’s interests. An unknown number of workers died[3] after the conservative government of Miguel Méndez sent the Colombian army to end a union strike for better working conditions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_massacre

    ______________________________________________________________________
    1954 Guatemalan coup d'état
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    1954 Guatemalan coup d'état
    Date
    18–27 June 1954
    Location Guatemala
    Result Jacobo Árbenz overthrown; Guatemalan Revolution ended; military junta assumes power.
    Belligerents
    23px-Flag_of_Guatemala.svg.png Guatemalan Government 23px-Flag_of_Guatemala.svg.png Military of Guatemala
    23px-Flag_of_Guatemala.svg.png Guatemalan exile rebels Supported by:
    [​IMG] United States

    Commanders and leaders
    Jacobo Árbenz
    Carlos Enrique Díaz Carlos Castillo Armas
    Dwight D. Eisenhower
    Allen Dulles
    300px-President_Eisenhower_and_John_Foster_Dulles_in_1956.jpg

    U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, the advocate of the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état that installed the right-wing dictatorship
    Covert United States involvement in regime change
    1949 Syrian coup d'état
    1949–1953 Albania
    1951–56 Tibet
    1953 Iranian coup d'état
    1954 Guatemalan coup d'état
    1956–57 Syria crisis
    1960 Congo coup d'état
    1961 Cuba, Bay of Pigs Invasion
    1961 Dominican Republic
    1963 South Vietnamese coup
    1964 Bolivian coup d'état
    1964 Brazilian coup d'état
    1966 Ghana coup d'état
    1971 Bolivian coup d'état
    197073 Chile
    1980 Turkish coup d'état
    1979–89 Afghanistan, Operation Cyclone
    1981–87 Nicaragua, Contras
    1996 Iraq coup attempt
    2001 Afghanistan
    2011 Libyan civil war
    2011–present Syria
    The 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état was a covert operation carried out by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that deposed the democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo Árbenz and ended the Guatemalan Revolution of 1944–54. Code-named Operation PBSUCCESS, it installed the military dictatorship of Carlos Castillo Armas, the first in a series of U.S.-backed authoritarian rulers in Guatemala.

    __________________________________________________

    Congress, the CIA, and Guatemala, 1954
    UNCLASSIFIED
    Sterilizing a "Red Infection"


    Congress, the CIA, and Guatemala, 1954
    David M. Barrett

    https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...lligence/kent-csi/vol44no5/html/v44i5a03p.htm
     

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    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  2. Jorgensen

    Jorgensen

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    As I understand it Jacobo Arbenz was popular with the peasants,trying to get land distribution for them.But this conflicted with US interests-so he had to go.
    I just read a biography on the late Gore Vidal and he had a property there at the time.The invasion on behalf of the American Fruit Company has been eclipsed by quite a record of interference in, and invasions of various countries,as you list.
     
  3. luutzu

    luutzu

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    Those are the "hard" coups. There's plenty of "soft" ones.

    Gore Vidal said the US has been involved in over 200 foreign intervention since WW2. :eek:

    All these just for money. I mean they could buy and trade with those countries for a whole lot less, without any blood and destruction.

    But then if that's the approach, the corporations will have to fork out the cash themselves. With war and liberation, the taxpayers pay for it :xyxthumbs
     

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  4. Jorgensen

    Jorgensen

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    I do not think the US is only interested in trade.In the 1980s the US congress etc got historians to lecture, or inform,on the Roman Empire.How they managed to dominate their world for so long.Vidal says that their empire building started with the invasion of the Phillipines in early 1900s.But since WW2 the real acceleration began.
    The North Korean problem would have been solved in the 1990s.North Korea wanted assurances that the US would not pursue regime change.In return they would desist their nuclear program.This of course was unacceptable.
     
  5. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader

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    What about Gough Whitlam? Any us interference there?
     
  6. luutzu

    luutzu

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    It's quite incredible how some people could feel that they have the right to just sacrifice the lives of tens of millions of people for some other "greater" strategic purpose. I mean, can anyone really blame the Iranian or N.Korean for wanting nuke when an imperial power like the US talk of wiping them out like it's nothing? That and have actually did try to take them out not so long ago. That and having military bases and installations right next door.

    I think Gore Vidal there define an empire as one that crosses the ocean to colonise. I think that's more of a European/British concept than the actual history of how things have always been define.

    That an empire is when one state decides to annex their neighbour, then their neighbour's neighbour. It could be land-based or across the seas or the rivers or the mountain ranges.

    That's how most empires spread. The Mongolian didn't really cross any seas to slaughter their way into an empire. Khublai tried to invade Japan, but that's only because he was a bit bored.

    So defined as such, the US have been an empire pretty much from the start of its Independence. There's all that missing Native Americans, trying to take over Canada, then Florida from the Spanish, then Cuba... decides to not take the Caribbean because that would add more power to the Southern slave-owning states (and the British Navy was still too strong). Then there's the annexing of half of what was Mexico and onto South America.

    They went global with WWI, then really dominate after WWII.

    Maybe only the cockroaches will fight WW IV though.
     
  7. luutzu

    luutzu

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    Yup.

    We're a vassal state of the US of A. Most of our PM have gotten used to that idea. Those that forget soon find themselves trying to get a job at the UN or their local charity.

    Same with Japan and S.Korea though. It was only a few years ago that the former Japanese PM got a bit too nationalistic and talk of wanting the US out of Japan. He's a "former" PM soon enough after that.

    I'm willing to bet the currently indicted S.Korean president didn't get ousted through simple corruption alone. Maybe she didn't want them THAAD system and have S.Korea be the primary target of both North Korea and Beijing if the US decided to test a few round.
     
  8. MrChow

    MrChow

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    Human behaviour is generally the same it just depends if you have enough power as a country to write the rules and history your way.

    Can't blame (well you can) the U.S for wanting to be the most powerful nuclear state as it won WW2 with it and as long as non-allies are prevented from developing nukes they will always have the end game in their hands.

    The morality and hypocracy of invading other countries seems to not be a factor because of the first point.
     
  9. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    We could probably add Ecuador , Panama and Iraq - 2003 to that list :)
     

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  10. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    What about Hawaii ?

    Was an independent country before the Yankee plantation owners took it over.
     
  11. basilio

    basilio

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    Manuel Noriega has died at 83. He was the brutal Panama dictator who was eventually overthrown by a US invasion in 1989. However he was also another US created dictator who just went feral.

    Manuel Noriega: feared dictator was the man who knew too much
    Panamanian general was a CIA asset and go-between in Central America’s dirty wars but became a monster the US could not control

    .....Noriega, who died on Monday at the age of 83, was right to be nervous. The October coup attempt marked a turning point in Washington’s attitude to a man whose rise to power it had assisted, who became a valued CIA cold war asset and go-between in Central America’s dirty wars, but who turned into a monster US spy bosses could no longer control. Noriega had outlived his usefulness. Now he was an embarrassment. So Bush made him America’s most wanted.

    .... Human rights and security aside, Bush had plenty of personal reasons for wanting Noriega out of the way. As CIA director and two-term vice-president to Ronald Reagan prior to 1988, Bush was implicated, by association, in often illegal, covert interventions in the civil wars in El Salvador and Nicaragua. During this period, Noriega, who rose to head the Panamanian security forces, became a highly paid informant and CIA “asset”.

    Noriega helped the US to combat Cuban, and thus Soviet, influence in the region. He acted as an intermediary with US-backed contra rebels fighting Daniel Ortega’s leftwing Sandinista government and with the Salvadoran government and rebels. Death squads, random killings and torture characterised these murderous conflicts. Noriega was also closely associated with the Colombian Medellin drug cartel of Pablo Escobar.


    1818.jpg

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    Lt Col Oliver North: Noriega claimed the US turned on him after his refusal to help provide arms for North’s contra rebels. Photograph: Lana Harris/AP
    Funds from drug trafficking were used to buy arms, pay fighters and suborn government officials. Noriega later claimed it was his refusal to help Lt Col Oliver North provide arms for the contra rebels in Nicaragua that triggered the US decision to drop him. North was the White House’s infamous covert operations pointman and a central figure in the Iran-contra scandal that shook the Reagan presidency.

    Noriega’s knowledge of US operations in Central America was detailed and highly compromising. He was said to have met Bush in person on more than one occasion. During the 1988 presidential campaign, Michael Dukakis, the Democrat nominee, attacked Bush for his close relationship with “Panamanian drug lord Noriega”. When Bush, as president, launched his signature “war on drugs”, Republicans worried about possible embarrassing contradictions.

    In 1988, in the wake of Iran-contra, a Senate committee concluded: “The saga of ... Noriega represents one of the most serious foreign policy failures for the United States. Throughout the 1970s and the 1980s, Noriega was able to manipulate US policy toward his country, while skilfully accumulating near-absolute power in Panama. It is clear that each US government agency which had a relationship with Noriega turned a blind eye to his corruption and drug dealing.” Noriega was allowed to establish “the hemisphere’s first narco-kleptocracy”
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-noriega-feared-panamanian-dictator-cia-asset
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/27/manuel-noriega-us-friend-foe
     
  12. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    Like what is happening in the Philippines right now I fear.
     
  13. luutzu

    luutzu

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    The Philippines' Duterte recently gave an interview on RT where he said, on tv, that the US wanted him to go against China.

    He said he refused because that would be a massacre on his people. He went on... if I shoot at the Chinese and they shoot back, where are my missiles defenses or missiles?

    And for not wanting a possible massacre, he actually said that he's worried the CIA will take him out any day now.

    The reporter was a bit shocked to hear that, so he repeated... you think they won't do it? They will. They went into Nicaragua [?], take its president back to the US for trial on drug charges.

    I guess they'll have to charge him with human rights abuses seeing how he ordered literally war on drug users and dealers. Not that it'd be a false charge, just that the US was the one funding his drug war programmes.

    The Asia Pacific is going to be in for another heck of a century. Trump is already telling NATO to cough up more cash to fund all theirs and the increased US footprints all over Eastern Europe. This will ease the cost of their pivoting into Asia - which already see some 60% of US Naval forces right now.
     
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