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Tribal politics v the greater good

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by wayneL, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. wayneL

    wayneL Rotaredom

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    In my view now is not the time for political point scoring.

    In my view our society probably faces the greatest challenge since world war 2 and has the potential to be a *far* greater challenge.

    As for me I've decided to set aside politics as such, we are in what is essentially an existential crisis. I don't believe it is in terms of the survival of the human race, that is ridiculous, but, in the societal and political systems that we have created in the last 70 years or so.

    I fear that liberal democracy may have just died. Of course that remains to be seen and I, along with all of us, will be watching intently to see what happens on that level of politics... And economics.

    if ever there was a point in history in the last century where we need each other, as plebeians, more than now, I certainly can't think of it.

    So what my question is is what is the overarching agenda of our society which would engender the greatest collegiality despite our individual political beliefs.

    Where do we have common ground?

    we may disagree with each other but I do believe that we all come from a place of considering the greater good.

    Perhaps if we can see that in each other we may come out of this intact.
     
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  2. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    I'm afraid I see coronavirus as just a pause in hostilities until the crisis is over after which it will be business as usual with politicians of all sides attacking each other once again.

    I thought we had a good chance of resolving our differences during the Hawke- Keating years when there was general agreement of that government's policies, but it went downhill after that.

    The thing you have to realise Wayne is that for all major political parties, being in government is the only game in town. Opposition is irrelevance and impotence and parties will do whatever they think it takes to get into government.

    So unless the Libs and Labor want to form a permanent Coalition then the chances of reconcilliation is remote, unless a broad based Centre party arises, (Turnbull/Rudd maybe, the two most intelligent politicians of recent years), but I can't really see that happening.

    Sorry to pour cold water on a well meaning thread, but we live in a real world.
     
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  3. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

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    I think it would certainly send a very strong message to the Australian public if Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese were to deliver a joint address to the nation, free of any political comment, with the leaders of the minor parties and independent MP's standing beside them.

    We are living through an extraordinary time most certainly.:2twocents
     
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  4. qldfrog

    qldfrog

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    I would have like to see a join address too, Labour LNP
     
  5. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    LOL > yeah, and settle the leadership battle behind the back of the pub.

    (I can sell more tickets if it's round the back)
     
  6. MovingAverage

    MovingAverage Smoke me a kipper

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    Now that would be truely inspiring, but sadly politicians are merely a reflection of the society we live in—politicians these days are merely followers and not leaders. They merely jump on the public bandwagon of the mass opinion and follow that because that’s were the votes are. Sometimes the masses know **** about what’s for the greater good. Sometimes the most important policies politicians should be making are highly unpopular and so politicians will not make those tough but necessary decisions.

    So back to your point, You only have to look at some of the public discourse going around these days and if anything this whole Corona virus has only amplified the divide within the public between the left and right side of politics which is why even in our current circumstances politicians of both sides won’t come together. If the public wasn’t so divided on the left and right then we might just see them come together because there would be votes in it.
     
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  7. basilio

    basilio

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    I'm surprised at the comments that politicians are not coming together over the COVID 19 issue and how the government should respond.

    You will find, in fact, that Morrison and Albanese were in close consultation about the Governmentsresponse. The Labour Party broadly supported the government actions and simply offered ideas on extensions and supervision of the proposals.

    The Labour Party agreed to the extension of the budget to October and to the 5 month Parliament recess. They also offered the government pre approval for a further $40B of community support with the only proviso being they passed it across the Labour Party .

    This is effectively a cross party emergency coalition. Really and truly.
     
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  8. qldfrog

    qldfrog

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    So what about a 1 minute joint address broadcast...1.5m away of course
     
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  9. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

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    That is true but the average person doesn't closely follow politics.

    An address to the nation, both standing side by side (1.5m apart obviously), would send a strong message. Bonus if the other party leaders and independents could also be present and indicate their support.

    It's about sending a clear message to the public not just about the workings of parliament or government itself. A message that we are in an emergency, that everything possible is being done to address it and now is not the time for partisan politics.

    I say that having no doubt that some of those who see fit to disobey the orders given will do so because they don't like the government anyway. I can imagine it now "F****** ScoMo says I can't do........." and that's the self justification for ignoring it. Likewise no doubt there'll be plenty of harsh words said by those standing in the dole queues and so on.

    So it would help if all the others were clearly seen and heard by all to be firmly behind the same message. Seen and heard as in in literally so.

    It's similar to a notice I saw placed in a supermarket last week. The impact wasn't due to the wording but the fact that it prominently displayed the Aldi, Coles, IGA and Woolworths logos side by side and equally sized. It's not often you see corporate rivals literally on the same page, and certainly not in each others' premises. It's a way of reinforcing the message that you can't escape this by simply going to the competition and it's not just Woolworths saying it, it's everyone. The basic content of the message was we're doing our best under difficult circumstances, don't abuse the staff please.

    I say that having noticed that some are coping better than others. I go for a walk around the streets each day for exercise (keeping away from others just in case) and suffice to say that there's only 4 occasions I can recall ever hearing some sort of domestic argument going on and three of those occasions were in the past 3 days. People are starting to crack already and we're in for months of this.:2twocents
     
  10. IFocus

    IFocus You are arguing with a Galah

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    Morrison had the opportunity to include Albanese in the Australian cabinet which would have removed any public discussion over where, what and when.

    Morrison chose not to.

    How ever for the rest of us in the end politics wont matter during this crisis only what we can do for each out to get through this matters and the Australian institutes of health law and order.
     
  11. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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    Tribal politics will die out IMO, same as the Catholic, Protestant issues die out.
    It is a left over socially ingrained ideology, that was passed on from generation to generation.
    If you look at both sides of politics in Australia, gone are the days of labor being representitive of the working man, most Labor politicians are professional people, same applies to the coalition, they keep it going to foster contributions yet when in office they all turn beige IMO.
     
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  12. wayneL

    wayneL Rotaredom

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    I'm also foreseeing social disorder.

    Our industry association got itself into a helluva sh1tfight just trying to get some clarification on our status as essential workers and the committee to advocate for us. Consequently a rather deep schism has developed.

    I notice people are getting tetchy on the roads too.

    I just hope our value system has not become too fractured through decades of toxic politics.
     
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  13. MovingAverage

    MovingAverage Smoke me a kipper

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    My local supermarket is a Woolies and it’s only got a relatively small car park being very close to the CBD. The supermarket has been very busy for the past few weeks so car parking has been hard to find. Monday night a fight broke out in the car park between two couples because one couple pinched the park from the other couple who’d been patiently waiting for the park. The guys went at it with their fists while the women were just screaming at each other. I suspect we’ll probably see more of this.
     
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  14. basilio

    basilio

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    Ironically, at this stage seems that crime activity has fallen across many cities affected by the virus. UK, US, New York noting a reduction as lock down continues.

    I saw that In Brazil it was the gangs in the slums that were enforcing the lock downs. This is the the Brazil where the President thinks the virus is just a con ). Take the good bits when you can get them !!:)

    Coronavirus crisis leads to steep drop in recorded crime | UK ...
    NYC crime dips 25% during coronavirus, just 1 murder last ...
    Philadelphia crime down amid COVID-19, police say [Video]
    Covid-19: Brazilian Gangs Enforce Lockdown In Rio De Janeiro

     
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  15. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

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    I can see a divide once things start to open up too.

    One side will want to try and regain lost production and profit. Most businesses would naturally be in that category.

    The other will point out that they're owed half a year's worth of weekends and public holidays that they couldn't use since everything was shut and so on. Tourism and hospitality businesses will naturally support that view.

    Ultimately what's lost can never be regained, it's a question of how to apportion the loss. :2twocents
     
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  16. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    That's why I think it will be a free for all once the crisis is over.

    It will take more leadership than we have seen since WWII to win the peace once this war is over.
     
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  17. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

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    One outcome I'll predict is that business is going to have a tough time convincing anyone why having lots of people working 9-5 Monday to Friday in a CBD office is still a good idea in 2020.

    It's a terribly inefficient approach and since an alternative has been forced, any argument that it's the only way has been invalidated. Giving ground on that point offers an opportunity to gain efficiency as a means to offset what's been lost so would be a rational way forward albeit one that many will resist for their own reasons. :2twocents
     
  18. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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    Also the companies that have adapted to an online existence, if it works, wont be leasing the shop or re employing the same amount of staff.
    A friend who owns a travel agency, has managed to get the office girls working from home, but she is beside herself with worry.
     
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  19. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    It starts like this. Then it's a crime fest when people do what they have to do to survive.
     
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  20. basilio

    basilio

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    Perhaps.. I think this prospect is why governments are very very keen to keep a floor under peoples finances and a roof over their heads.

    I think internet scams will boom in these times. I can also see a lot of bored drunk house bound people kicking off. But I still like the seemingly good start. :)
     
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