Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

The Five Commandments of Aussie Stock Forums (1 Viewer)

Joe Blow

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Managing Aussie Stock Forums is an extremely challenging task, made even more difficult by the strong growth ASF has experienced in recent times. Although we have a Code of Conduct it is still very difficult to get some members to abide by the site rules. This, slightly tongue-in-cheek list of commandments details the areas which create the most management problems for the moderators and myself.

If everyone abided by the following five commandments, ASF would become a more effective resource and a far more pleasant place for everyone to visit. There would also be far less work for the moderators and I to do, so please do everything you can to assist us in creating a friendly and constructive atmosphere here. Don't forget that the moderators are all volunteers who give their time to help maintain this community, so please always treat them with the appropriate respect... which leads me to the first commandment:


1. Thou shalt treat other ASF members with respect.

In short that means no insults, name calling or personal attacks. It also means do not deliberately provoke others. We will no longer be allowing inflammatory threads that are intended solely to provoke and divide the ASF community. If you are starting a thread on a controversial topic please ensure that you frame the discussion in a constructive way. A little pot stirring is fine, but any post that directly insults another ASF member or encourages hatred of or vilifies a particular group of people will be removed and an infraction will be issued.

Those who continually demonstrate that they are unable to treat others respectfully or who persist in provoking others will have their ASF account permanently suspended.


2. Thou shalt not ramp.

Ramping is the single largest problem ASF faces and it is the one we continue to struggle with on a daily basis. So exactly what is a "ramp" or "downramp"?

If you make an assertion in a post in a stock thread, it must be substantiated. It can be backed up with analysis, additional information or reasonable extrapolation. For example, if you make the claim that a company is undervalued, you must support that claim by presenting reasons for your point of view. Just saying that you believe it to be undervalued is not enough.

The most common ramping related "sins" we encounter are:

  • Posting price targets or assigning arbitrary valuations with no accompanying analysis.
  • Posting unsourced rumours from other stock forums or blogs. Rumours from the mainstream broadcast or print media are allowed as long as the source is identified.
  • Posting information sourced from elsewhere without citing (or linking to) the original source material.
  • People claiming to have unnamed "contacts" who are supplying them with information not available to the market.
  • Posts with no meaningful content. If you are going to post in a stock thread, please ensure you have something of value to contribute.

Ramping is such an all pervasive problem that we require the assistance of all ASF members to assist us in keeping a lid on it. If you see a post that you believe to be a ramp (or downramp), please use the "Report a Post" feature to alert the moderators and me to it.

Some more detail on our ramping policy can be found here.


3. Thou shalt not ask for, nor offer, specific financial advice.

This means you are not permitted to ask others how to invest your funds, nor can anyone advise someone else how to invest theirs. You may not refer to a stock as a "buy" or a "sell" nor can you "recommend" a stock in any way.


4. Thou shalt not spam your product, service or website.

You are not permitted to post links to, or promote, your product, service or website in posts on the forums. However, you may put a simple link to it in your signature. No affiliate links, sales pitches or large font sizes please! Any links that the moderators or I feel is inappropriate will be promptly removed.

With the market looking bullish again the spammers, scammers and snake oil salesmen will be out in force attempting to spam their dodgy wares on ASF. Please report any spam posts as soon as you see them so we can stop these parasites in their tracks.


5. Think before thou posteth!

It is amazing how many people simply do not think before they post. Here are some things to consider before you click the "Submit" button.

  • If you are about to start a thread, have you done a search to see whether another active thread on the same topic already exists?
  • Are you starting your thread in the correct forum?
  • Is your post on topic?
  • Is the content of your post potentially defamatory or in violation of any law?
  • Have you proofread your post for spelling and/or grammatical errors?

Aussie Stock Forums is not Speaker's Corner in London's Hyde Park, it is an online community with rules that are designed to make it an enjoyable and useful place for everyone, irrespective of age, gender, investment experience, religion or political affiliation. While we encourage robust debate on almost any topic, I ask that people respect the limits I have outlined above. Please do not look for loopholes or to continually ride that fine line between what is acceptable and what isn't. Posting at ASF is not a right and we reserve the right to deny access to (or remove the posts of) those who demonstrate that they are incapable of respecting the website rules.

Any community, online or otherwise, is only as good as the sum of those who inhabit it, so please do your part to make ASF the positive and friendly place it is capable of being! :)

If you have any further questions or would like additional clarification of any of the commandments listed above, feel free to post any questions in this thread and I will respond to them.
 

Joe Blow

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Please do your best to avoid conflict with other ASF members. The moderators and I dislike getting caught in the middle of online brawls as we often become targets ourselves when we are forced to intervene. I have put together the following tips to help people avoid conflict with others.

Some tips for avoiding conflict on ASF

If you are engaged in a debate with another ASF member and it is becoming clear that you are unable to find any common ground, consider just agreeing to disagree rather than persist with a debate that is likely to end with an exchange of insults.

Tone and inflection is sometimes not so apparent in the written word. It is possible to misinterpret the tone or intention of a post very easily. If you are unsure what someone meant, it may be a good idea to send them a PM and ask them to clarify, rather than respond in an argumentative or confrontationalist manner.

If you find the posts of another ASF member irritating to the point that it is affecting your enjoyment of the forums then consider putting that person on your ignore list.

When composing your posts, imagine that you are standing in front of the person you are addressing and only post what you would say to them in person. It is easy to be far more provocative and combative when you are posting anonymously from behind a keyboard in your home/workplace.

If you feel you are being provoked or goaded by another ASF member, don't take the bait! Simply ignore them or, if you feel you are being targeted by somone, report their posts.

Do not put words in the mouths of others! This is one of the surest ways to start a fight. If you are uncertain of someone's opinion on a particular issue or are confused by their stance then ask them to clarify.

If you find yourself getting angry at the opinions of others, consider avoiding threads on topics that tend to get you worked up. Online communities are supposed to be places that are enjoyable to visit. If you find yourself getting angry or frustrated, get up, walk away from the computer and go and do something else for a while. Do not let anger get the better of you!
 

Julia

In Memoriam
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Managing Aussie Stock Forums is an extremely challenging task, made even more difficult by the strong growth ASF has experienced in recent times. Although we have a Code of Conduct it is still very difficult to get some members to abide by the site rules. This, slightly tongue-in-cheek list of commandments details the areas which create the most management problems for the moderators and myself.

If everyone abided by the following five commandments, ASF would become a more effective resource and a far more pleasant place for everyone to visit. There would also be far less work for the moderators and I to do, so please do everything you can to assist us in creating a friendly and constructive atmosphere here. Don't forget that the moderators are all volunteers who give their time to help maintain this community, so please always treat them with the appropriate respect... which leads me to the first commandment:


1. Thou shalt treat other ASF members with respect.

In short that means no insults, name calling or personal attacks. It also means do not deliberately provoke others. We will no longer be allowing inflammatory threads that are intended solely to provoke and divide the ASF community. If you are starting a thread on a controversial topic please ensure that you frame the discussion in a constructive way. A little pot stirring is fine, but any post that directly insults another ASF member or encourages hatred of or vilifies a particular group of people will be removed and an infraction will be issued.

Those who continually demonstrate that they are unable to treat others respectfully or who persist in provoking others will have their ASF account permanently suspended.


2. Thou shalt not ramp.

Ramping is the single largest problem ASF faces and it is the one we continue to struggle with on a daily basis. So exactly what is a "ramp" or "downramp"?

If you make an assertion in a post in a stock thread, it must be substantiated. It can be backed up with analysis, additional information or reasonable extrapolation. For example, if you make the claim that a company is undervalued, you must support that claim by presenting reasons for your point of view. Just saying that you believe it to be undervalued is not enough.

The most common ramping related "sins" we encounter are:

  • Posting price targets or assigning arbitrary valuations with no accompanying analysis.
  • Posting unsourced rumours from other stock forums or blogs. Rumours from the mainstream broadcast or print media are allowed as long as the source is identified.
  • Posting information sourced from elsewhere without citing (or linking to) the original source material.
  • People claiming to have unnamed "contacts" who are supplying them with information not available to the market.
  • Posts with no meaningful content. If you are going to post in a stock thread, please ensure you have something of value to contribute.

Ramping is such an all pervasive problem that we require the assistance of all ASF members to assist us in keeping a lid on it. If you see a post that you believe to be a ramp (or downramp), please use the "Report a Post" feature to alert the moderators and me to it.

Some more detail on our ramping policy can be found here.


3. Thou shalt not ask for, nor offer, specific financial advice.

This means you are not permitted to ask others how to invest your funds, nor can anyone advise someone else how to invest theirs. You may not refer to a stock as a "buy" or a "sell" nor can you "recommend" a stock in any way.


4. Thou shalt not spam your product, service or website.

You are not permitted to post links to, or promote, your product, service or website in posts on the forums. However, you may put a simple link to it in your signature. No affiliate links, sales pitches or large font sizes please! Any links that the moderators or I feel is inappropriate will be promptly removed.

With the market looking bullish again the spammers, scammers and snake oil salesmen will be out in force attempting to spam their dodgy wares on ASF. Please report any spam posts as soon as you see them so we can stop these parasites in their tracks.


5. Think before thou posteth!

It is amazing how many people simply do not think before they post. Here are some things to consider before you click the "Submit" button.

  • If you are about to start a thread, have you done a search to see whether another active thread on the same topic already exists?
  • Are you starting your thread in the correct forum?
  • Is your post on topic?
  • Is the content of your post potentially defamatory or in violation of any law?
  • Have you proofread your post for spelling and/or grammatical errors?

Aussie Stock Forums is not Speaker's Corner in London's Hyde Park, it is an online community with rules that are designed to make it an enjoyable and useful place for everyone, irrespective of age, gender, investment experience, religion or political affiliation. While we encourage robust debate on almost any topic, I ask that people respect the limits I have outlined above. Please do not look for loopholes or to continually ride that fine line between what is acceptable and what isn't. Posting at ASF is not a right and we reserve the right to deny access to (or remove the posts of) those who demonstrate that they are incapable of respecting the website rules.

Any community, online or otherwise, is only as good as the sum of those who inhabit it, so please do your part to make ASF the positive and friendly place it is capable of being! :)

If you have any further questions or would like additional clarification of any of the commandments listed above, feel free to post any questions in this thread and I will respond to them.

Please do your best to avoid conflict with other ASF members. The moderators and I dislike getting caught in the middle of online brawls as we often become targets ourselves when we are forced to intervene. I have put together the following tips to help people avoid conflict with others.

Some tips for avoiding conflict on ASF

If you are engaged in a debate with another ASF member and it is becoming clear that you are unable to find any common ground, consider just agreeing to disagree rather than persist with a debate that is likely to end with an exchange of insults.

Tone and inflection is sometimes not so apparent in the written word. It is possible to misinterpret the tone or intention of a post very easily. If you are unsure what someone meant, it may be a good idea to send them a PM and ask them to clarify, rather than respond in an argumentative or confrontationalist manner.

If you find the posts of another ASF member irritating to the point that it is affecting your enjoyment of the forums then consider putting that person on your ignore list.

When composing your posts, imagine that you are standing in front of the person you are addressing and only post what you would say to them in person. It is easy to be far more provocative and combative when you are posting anonymously from behind a keyboard in your home/workplace.

If you feel you are being provoked or goaded by another ASF member, don't take the bait! Simply ignore them or, if you feel you are being targeted by somone, report their posts.

Do not put words in the mouths of others! This is one of the surest ways to start a fight. If you are uncertain of someone's opinion on a particular issue or are confused by their stance then ask them to clarify.

If you find yourself getting angry at the opinions of others, consider avoiding threads on topics that tend to get you worked up. Online communities are supposed to be places that are enjoyable to visit. If you find yourself getting angry or frustrated, get up, walk away from the computer and go and do something else for a while. Do not let anger get the better of you!

Joe, I've read the above two announcements with interest, and wonder if perhaps you've thought of moving these to the General Chat thread?
I rarely look at the Announcements Forum and suspect others might be the same.

Your Commandments seem pretty reasonable to me. I'd be interested in what others think.

The topic of conflict on the forum is interesting. Without some challenging of our entrenched views, exchanges become boring and we're not stimulated to think much. But it's a fine line as to where these challenges become attacks, and as such can result in some quite heated spats.
I know from time to time I've found myself responding to what feels like an unreasonable attitude with more of the same, and so the aggressiveness is fuelled. Ultimately, this serves none of us well.


It's not always easy to contradict someone, or challenge their view, in a respectful and objective way, but I guess this is something we all need to be aiming for.

Any comments from other members?
 

Wysiwyg

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Any comments from other members?

Just one from me Julia. :) Do you think it would be better for anyone viewing a post if half the screen isn't filled with the previous post or posts quoted. Maybe a few lines to let the readers know who or what question is being responded to would be more practical. Above is an example of what I mean. What do you think?

x W.
 

Julia

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Really good point, Wysiwyg. I agree, and I considered it in this instance.
But I was attempting to, um, 'repeat' Joe's announcement in the hope that some people might be prompted to respond.

At the other end of the scale, I find it a bit irritating when someone just posts a link with maybe a comment such as "this is interesting", but no clue as to what it's about. A few words as to the content to enable the reader to decide whether they're sufficiently interested to want to follow the link would be useful.
 

Wysiwyg

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Is your post on topic?

I would hope a little common sense goes with this requirement. Obviously at times a discussion branches off briefly about something and it is totally impractical to start a new thread to simply exchange a few posts. :2twocents
 

Wysiwyg

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At the other end of the scale, I find it a bit irritating when someone just posts a link with maybe a comment such as "this is interesting", but no clue as to what it's about. A few words as to the content to enable the reader to decide whether they're sufficiently interested to want to follow the link would be useful.
Yes it is a bit silly to simply post a link or you tube without some explanation as to what it is about. I really don't waste download time and bytes on something I may not be interested in.
 
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How about posting infraction information , what does a 5 point one mean ?

Take Care .
Bobby.
 

nulla nulla

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Your Commandments seem pretty reasonable to me. I'd be interested in what others think.

The topic of conflict on the forum is interesting. Without some challenging of our entrenched views, exchanges become boring and we're not stimulated to think much. But it's a fine line as to where these challenges become attacks, and as such can result in some quite heated spats.
I know from time to time I've found myself responding to what feels like an unreasonable attitude with more of the same, and so the aggressiveness is fuelled. Ultimately, this serves none of us well.


It's not always easy to contradict someone, or challenge their view, in a respectful and objective way, but I guess this is something we all need to be aiming for.

Any comments from other members?

As a moderate poster I acknowledge the need for social guidelines to reduce the incidence of heated personal interaction, which more often than not deviates from the original theme of the thread. However I also feel there needs to be some recourse to posters sick of seeing threads hijacked by posters sprooking their "wisdom" which generally shows up as shallow when tested.
I don't believe in "running to teacher" when someone is a bit pointed in their response. I'd like to think we are mature enough (and civil enough) to deal with any differences of perspective without it escalating to a level needing moderator intervention.
I believe we need to be allowed to express our differences of opinion, without fear of rebuke (and forced holidays). After all, isn't this what starting threads is all about?
 

explod

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Joe, I've read the above two announcements with interest, and wonder if perhaps you've thought of moving these to the General Chat thread?
I rarely look at the Announcements Forum and suspect others might be the same.

Your Commandments seem pretty reasonable to me. I'd be interested in what others think.

The topic of conflict on the forum is interesting. Without some challenging of our entrenched views, exchanges become boring and we're not stimulated to think much. But it's a fine line as to where these challenges become attacks, and as such can result in some quite heated spats.
I know from time to time I've found myself responding to what feels like an unreasonable attitude with more of the same, and so the aggressiveness is fuelled. Ultimately, this serves none of us well.


It's not always easy to contradict someone, or challenge their view, in a respectful and objective way, but I guess this is something we all need to be aiming for.

Any comments from other members?

Have also found the same problem on contradiction. I have gradualled learned that you cant' just better to focus on putting your own view when it is counter with well sourced support. But of course the bit of Irish gets in the way sometimes.

As for the placement, I rarely look at the chat areas, so not sure.

cheers explod
 

prawn_86

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How about posting infraction information , what does a 5 point one mean ?

Take Care .
Bobby.

Im sure Joe will expand on it further, but essentially once you have racked up 20 infraction points you are sent on a holiday for a period of time, depending on the nature of the infractions (this is automated, not decided by the mods).

Hope that helps.
 
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nulla nulla said:
However I also feel there needs to be some recourse to posters sick of seeing threads hijacked by posters sprooking their "wisdom" which generally shows up as shallow when tested.

Why not post your view? Just a guess, but some of these posters might appreciate feedback, and post for discussion, not ego.
 

nulla nulla

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Why not post your view? Just a guess, but some of these posters might appreciate feedback, and post for discussion, not ego.

I believe if the post I made is read objectively, in its entirety, other posters would realise that I am responding to Julia's invitation to comment.
I have expressed an opinion, including what i consider to be relative points, which is open for comment by other posters.
At this point I can't make the "ego" connection but I'm happy to review my post and improve on it if I can. However, I will say that I don't wish too see this thread hijacked or demeaned by getting into a senseless point scoring argument with other posters.
 
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Is ASF still a financial site? I would say not.

I believe it is really a site for general topics, chat, political, religious and conspiracy theories with a very small % of financial posts in relation to these topics.

ASF has changed so much since i first joined, it holds very little attraction to me any more because it is no longer what it was, a financial site, and a lot of the good posters are now gone.

I have voiced my concerns to you in the past Joe about the direction of ASF but i understand this is a business for you and the more members you get the better it is for you but with this comes the extra work.
The topics that these posters want to talk about are far more controversial and come with far stronger beliefs attached to them than what the majority of financial topics do, therefore creating more unacceptable posts and work for Mods.
 

Joe Blow

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I would hope a little common sense goes with this requirement. Obviously at times a discussion branches off briefly about something and it is totally impractical to start a new thread to simply exchange a few posts. :2twocents

Yes, a few brief off topic posts are fine. I am really referring to those who deliberately hijack threads in an attempt to take them off topic.

How about posting infraction information , what does a 5 point one mean ?

Take Care .
Bobby.

Most infraction points last for three months, at which point they expire. Anyone who accumulates 20 points in any three month period gets a three month suspension.

Here are some of the most common infractions, followed by the amount of demerit points in parentheses:

Defying 100 Character Minimum Rule (2)
No/Low Content Post in Stock Thread (2)
Minor Ramp/Downramp (4)
Offensive Language (4)
Deliberately Provoking Others (5)
Major Ramp/Downramp (7)
Personal Abuse of Other Member(s) (7)
Racism/Vilification (10)
Spamming (10)

Is ASF still a financial site? I would say not.

I believe it is really a site for general topics, chat, political, religious and conspiracy theories with a very small % of financial posts in relation to these topics.

ASF has changed so much since i first joined, it holds very little attraction to me any more because it is no longer what it was, a financial site, and a lot of the good posters are now gone.

I have voiced my concerns to you in the past Joe about the direction of ASF but i understand this is a business for you and the more members you get the better it is for you but with this comes the extra work as the topics that these posters want to talk about are far more controversial and come with far stronger beliefs attached to them than what the majority of financial topics do, therefore creating more unacceptable posts and work for Mods.

I understand that the General Chat forum is not for everyone but personally I think it makes ASF a more rounded community. It has always been my intention to create an online community with a focus on the stock market and investment rather than just a "stock market forum". When the market closes (and indeed when it is still open) some people prefer to chat about other topics and I want to encourage that. I find forums with a very narrow focus a bit dry and lacking in character, but that's just a personal preference.

I would hope that those who do not wish to participate in the General Chat forum can do their best to ignore it. There is still plenty of financial and market related chat going on here! :)

With regards to posters that have left, people always come and go on forums. Some leave for a while, some leave for good. However, the reasons for the departures are always many and varied. At the same time, there are new ASF members arriving every day, many of them with much to offer.
 
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Joe you have either ignored or missed my point.

You have encouraged some of the issues you have raised and while ASF continues on its current path, they will get worse not better.

Surely you can see that posters that want to talk about politics, religion etc are going to produce more issues than those wanting to discuss financial matters.

You mention quality of posts but once again you contribute to the lack of quality.

The 100 character rule is a joke and leads to posters adding anything at the end of their posts to fulfil the 100 characters.

Anyway, the forum is yours to run as you see fit and i will leave the forum to you guys now as i have little interest in it's current form and most likely future direction.

Joe please cancel my account. If you need this in a PM please advise me and i will do so.

Thank you.
 

Joe Blow

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You have encouraged some of the issues you have raised and while ASF continues on its current path, they will get worse not better.

Yes, I have encouraged people to discuss almost anything they think is worthy of discussion. I think, by and large, the ASF community is mature enough to discuss a wide variety of topics, some of them controversial, in a constructive and respectful way.

Surely you can see that posters that want to talk about politics, religion etc are going to produce more issues than those wanting to discuss financial matters.

Perhaps, but those who cannot conduct themselves in a reasonable way will find themselves eventually suspended from ASF. The point of this thread was to make people aware of what we are prepared to accept as reasonable behaviour and what we aren't.

The 100 character rule is a joke and leads to posters adding anything at the end of their posts to fulfil the 100 characters.

The rule has actually proven to be very successful and as a result there are far fewer posts in stock threads with little or no worthwhile content. Posts that are padded out are promptly removed. I suspect that your problem with this rule is that you were constantly being pulled up for ignoring it.

Anyway, the forum is yours to run as you see fit and i will leave the forum to you guys now as i have little interest in it's current form and most likely future direction.

Joe please cancel my account.

Fair enough. All the best with your future endeavours.
 

awg

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Hi Joe,

I have some questions about the infraction rule, if you dont mind.

Do mods normally notify the infractor if they are deemed to have incurred penalty?

warn the person if they are in danger of suspension?

Have been curious about this, especially as I notice "another" stock forum seems to suspend people with over-zealous regularity. ( think they have too many retired school teachers as mods)

I have had at least one post deleted due to 100 characters, and one removed from the joke thread, as it was too coarse ( I only know coarse jokes), but was not notified of any infraction ( i'm not complaining btw, just asking)

In the past, I have had my mind changed by hearing other people views, and I regard this as a good thing, as I was probably wrong in the first place.

ASF is especially useful in this respect with regard to opinions on various equities or strategies.

Also on things like climate change, their is a scarcity of understanding, some posters provide good links.

Get a laugh out of online spats, ASF is well behaved compared to other forums I have seen, fwiw think mods do a good job, wouldnt want to be one though
 

Joe Blow

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Hi Joe,

I have some questions about the infraction rule, if you dont mind.

Do mods normally notify the infractor if they are deemed to have incurred penalty?

warn the person if they are in danger of suspension?

Have been curious about this, especially as I notice "another" stock forum seems to suspend people with over-zealous regularity. ( think they have too many retired school teachers as mods)

Hi awg,

A PM is automatically dispatched with each warning or infraction with a brief explanation of why it was issued.

We do not necessarily issue warnings to those who are close to a suspension, as this is difficult to keep track of. However, if you view your own profile you can see a list of infractions and warnings and a point total. This can only been seen by you and the moderators and I. It might be an idea to keep an eye on this if you think you might be getting close to the dreaded 20 points.

Hope that answers your questions.
 

awg

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thanks joe, it does.

I didnt know that the profile contained that info, and as I have had no PMs or infractions, I am blemish free, even though my deleted joke was pretty vile
( but funny)
 

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