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Most liked posts in thread: SelfWealth Trading

  1. wfdTamar

    wfdTamar

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    Hi. Haven't answered anyone for a while. Managed chemo ok, but it did make me tired. Still got a stem cell transplant to go which apparently is worse.

    I had been going pretty well investing until the beginning of May when I got caught out and the stock went down a few %. I was holding and have been since, so I saw the value drop quite a bit, but it's since regained a lot now. Had a dividend in the meantime so all is going according to my crackpot theory. Since I'm a bit more under the weather I'm not fussed, but I do miss those $10,000 gain weeks. Just need to be patient. Of course I could at any time just start trading again at a lower value and still make money but I can't be bothered for a while.

    Another thing I've done is set up a SMSF (Self Managed Super Fund) with Esuperfund.com.au so that I can move a decent amount of my money into that and still trade it with Selfwealth. That way I only pay 15% tax instead of standard income tax rates which could have been quite high given how I was going. The only drawback is any money I put in that is locked away until I get to 'preservation age' (not that far away for me).

    Kracca - The Premium part of Selfwealth does not interest me - it costs $9.50 per month and is the stuff that Johny5 described. I don't care what other people are doing. It may be of use to those with no idea and who want a bit more guidance. You get a trial when you join up so you can decide if it's useful to you. However I found it might just add to the confusion of the whole share investing concept if you've never had anything to do with shares. By the time you've got your head around the basics of the share market the trial is up. Could be a good idea to try a simulated trading platform before risking real money - particularly if you intend frequent trading. I think the ASX has one.

    One thing I'll say though is having money in the bank (that you won't need immediate access to) is a complete waste of earning potential. 3% is about as good as you could expect in a bank currently and that's a pitiful amount isn't it? You can easily get more than that just from dividends, even without considering trading to improve your return. It's only a problem if you might want to use the money when your stock(s) have gone down in value.

    Ginia - If you want your money, you sell however much of your stock you need to, wait for the trade(s) to clear/settle (the T+2 days - which can mean 3 business days), then from the Selfwealth site you transfer money from there back to your personal bank account (it functionally similar to an online banking transfer). For smaller amounts that can be overnight, but I have had hold ups with larger amounts and had to contact Selfwealth support - who are very good. However I do wish this was seamless. It might have simply been I wanted to transfer before the trades had settled.

    I was wondering what would happen if Selfwealth folded. They have been going for quite a few years now, but it's hard to tell how big they are or how successful.

    I have been assured that my money is secure. I was concerned about that. Apparently it is in an ANZ account in your name in a sub account of Selfwealth. It is government guaranteed just like any normal bank account (though this only covers $250,000!). It would be very nice to have that spelled out in layman terms though in the PDS or in a FAQ on the site. The shares are in your name and CHESS registered (just like any other big broker).

    e.d.suarez - anyone that can buy a house at a young age does not need my dodgy investment advice. If you want to use Selfwealth just join. If you want to be active trading you'll need a better source of data so you can join another broker for that (I see that you're already at that stage). I don't know who is good for that - I just use my Trade (ANZ), but I now have a Comsecc one too. As for what stocks to trade in - well I chose ETF's for the broad spread of companies. It's kind of like having your money in a managed fund but you do the trading - best of both worlds. You can pick what type of ETF (which nation, field of investment).
     
    DonDiego and Ginia like this.
  2. wfdTamar

    wfdTamar

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    I've signed up with them. It really is only $9.50 flat per trade so that's great.

    The downside is the charts and most data are 20 minutes delayed. The only live data is day high & low and current price. It's probably still ok if you don't need to decide trades based on instant action, but it'd be nice to have a bit more info.

    Another thing is they have all this stuff about being able to follow other people using the site - maybe even invest the same way the top performers are. What they don't tell you up front (which I think is really bad) is that is part of the Premium features that cost $20 per month.

    If you're happy to do your own thing, all you need pay is the $9.50 brokerage per trade.
     
    Kracca likes this.
  3. wfdTamar

    wfdTamar

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    Do I need to go over this again? Perhaps you've not read my posts properly? I have mentioned that I can hold the stock through a downturn (so shoot me if I don't use the correct terminology). The stock I trade in is extremely unlikely to tank, so I can wait till it comes back. Yes, in theory, that would be a loss while it's down, but one I will never have to fulfil (undertake?), partake of. It is only a true loss if you actually have to sell the stock.

    You may want to teach what you know, but I don't think you'll ever have what it takes to actually teach in a manner that can be learnt.
     
    WesternTaipan likes this.
  4. Habakkuk

    Habakkuk

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    I'm not with IB. My brokerage is $6 or 0.06%, so about $480 on your trade size. But I would never trade anywhere near that.

    Back testing is running through a series of hypothetical trades over a past period to see what 'might have been'. You need to have clear objective, quantifyable rules that you can apply systematically. To do that by hand is tedious and unnecessary. There is software available that makes it a breeze. But it's very easy to be fooled. Not just by the fact that past results are not predictive of future results, but that there will be very likely unrealistic prices used in a back test that give you too rosy a picture because those prices might not have been achieved if your orders had been in the market at the time. Especially at your trade size.

    Furthermore, it is very easy and tempting to make things fit with hindsight, again causing nasty surprises when trading for real.

    I'm not suggesting that you should learn about this because it will probably take you years to get useful results. This is not in any way belittling your ability. It's what I have learnt from my own experience and that of others. Although if you were interested, I wouldn't discourage you.

    We're well and truly off-topic now and maybe I should stop.

    If I may make a suggestion it would be this: trade with smaller amounts, pay more in brokerage and keep statistics of all your trades so that you can get an idea of how your numbers are shaping up, i.e. win percentage, average winning amount, average losing, etc. If after a year or even 6 months you find that you have done not much better than simply holding STW, you should reconsider your approach.
    As you say, you don't really need to maximise your income so to lower your risk might be a good idea. I can tell you that tomorrow there will surely be somebody pointing out to you that you are taking an enormous risk putting virtually all your money in one trade.

    It is clear to me that you have no edge as such. Don't be offended. There are very, very few people on this forum who have an edge. Very, very few. But they all wish they did.

    It is possible that you have a natural talent for trading. If so you should do all right. But I wouldn't bet on it.
    I hope I haven't upset you with my bluntness. Seriously, I'm just trying to help.
     
    barney likes this.
  5. Johny5

    Johny5

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    Hi Sebfox
    Have been trading with SelfWealth for about six months. Using SelfWealth is a bit like using social media, all the members have an alias and an Icon, you can see each others portfolio of shares (not cash balances) everyone is ranked for risk and performance (top 10%, bottom 50% etc), you can follow other members and align your portfolio with them or a selected group of traders/investors. Yes all trades are for a flat fee of $9.50 (regardless of size). The trading platform is very basic, its in the form of a website or a newly introduced phone app (for Android and Apple). The platform only supports limit and at market orders, no other conditional orders are supported, the data is delayed 20 min, but they do have a "Stock Analysis" portal with charts and forecasts provided by Thomson Reuters (nothing fantastic but OK for free). The platform is very slow (sometimes a couple of minutes to put on a trade) so no algo rapid trade stuff possible here. But the very low brokerage can as you imagine make for some very interesting trading strategies, with a movement of less than a cent covering brokerage on a parcel of 2000 shares. Oh they only trade ASX/Chi-X equities (no FOREX, CFD's, Options etc). But a big advantage is that if you buy and then sell the shares your funds are immediately available for another trade (you still have to wait T+2 to withdraw the funds). One drawback is that your funds are totally controlled by third parties, so when you want to withdraw funds you must use the SelfWealth platform IE you don't have direct access to the bank account even though they are actually kept in an ANZ account. I have learn t to deal with the shortcomings, they have a good helpdesk, overall I'm pretty happy with SelfWealth, but I use other parties for my datafeed and charting. SelfWealth have a demo login so you can give it a try. Hope this helps
     
    sebfox likes this.
  6. Johny5

    Johny5

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    Yes you can see the orders in IRESS (I often make the order an odd number so I can tell its mine). Once I find my order in the IRESS depth, I right click it and select "Highlight row" then if the order partly or fully trades an alert pops up. The SelfWealth phone app will popup an alert and you will also get an email confirmation about 10mins later, the desktop app/webpage will only update if you refresh the page (normally not a deal-breaker but for me it has cost in lost opportunities). A point to also note is that orders take a minute or two to appear in the depth, again only a problem to a high frequency trader like me.
     
    Habakkuk likes this.
  7. CNHTractor

    CNHTractor

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    Have been using for 18 months, no issues to speak of. Use Commsec for real time pricing. Good to have fixed price brokerage.
     
    Roller_1 likes this.
  8. Wysiwyg

    Wysiwyg Everyone wants money

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    This flat rate could encourage high net worth traders to switch. Brokerage eats a lot of profit over time. The days of charging last century brokerage are over.
     
  9. wfdTamar

    wfdTamar

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    I'm surprised there isn't more discussion of this. I just found them today when the ANZ share trading web site was really slow again. I wondered if there was a better alternative, maybe one that charged a bit less in brokerage. Cheapest normal one was 0.1% or even down to 0.075% (CMC) if you make lots of trades. Then up pops this at a fixed $9.50 per trade - wow. That would be heaps cheaper.

    The concept of following other people is interesting too. Not for me - I paid for Motley Fool, but quickly got a refund as I just didn't like the idea of trusting someone else to advise me how to invest - and their results were a bit up and down too. Hated the way they sell it too.

    I do wonder - if SelfWealth went down the gurgler and you weren't holding any shares, would your money be safe? I think so, as they open an ANZ account in your name.

    I use a Mac and that's what they use in the promo video so I should be right there. Anyone use them? Wondering how good it is for say, day trading?

    I really can't see a down side - particularly if you trade larger amounts. One thing - they don't do foreign shares.
     
  10. Roller_1

    Roller_1

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    By per trade i'm assuming it is $9.50 in and $9.50 out?
     
  11. wfdTamar

    wfdTamar

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    Yes, a buy, or a sell. Been talking about it on Whirlpool and someone there asked if the order was only partially filled would they charge multiple for each bit of the order. I wouldn't think so as on ETrade they only charge when the order is completely filled. I gather that's standard (not that I'd really know having only used ETRrade before).
     
  12. Habakkuk

    Habakkuk

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    Expecting live dynamic data and charts for free?

    They do tell you up front. It's on page 2 of the terms and conditions. The word 'optional' is in bold. They don't say it's $20, admittedly, but I expect there would be different services available a various prices. They mention the annual membership fee and how it is to be paid on page 3.

    A legitimate complaint would be the length and complexity of those terms and conditions which is due to the multiple entities involved. It's also unclear (to me) why I should buy brokerage in 'blocks'. Is there a discount?

    Nevertheless, I'm probably signing up as well next year purely for the brokerage. Potentially only a few basis points without ifs and buts or negotiating, that's unbeatable.
     
  13. wfdTamar

    wfdTamar

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    Well, when I save 'live' I meant if you refresh the page, you get current data - at the time the page was refreshed (that's how it works on ETrade). Agreed I wouldn't expect to get data changing in front of me without manually refreshing (is that what you mean by 'dynamic'?). However the only option you get is 20 minute old (it's more sometimes) data in the charting section.

    It's only in the 'Place a Trade' section you do see current price, day high & low.


    My mistake - they do disclose the fee service (there's only one) in the Terms & Conditions, but I think they should put it more obviously on the front page - a simple asterisk disclosure would suffice - '*part of the Premium package for an additional monthly fee of $20'. It's not a lot, but if you didn't trade often it would bump up the cost of your trades significantly to the point it might be more expensive than a conventional broker.

    The other point - the T&C's and PDS - they include stuff that hasn't been implemented. For example that annual fee for trades - doesn't exist. The only options are to buy trades for $9.50, either singly or in multiples. There's no discount for high quantities. You'll also find talk of fees for various things (management fees, 'costs' etc) which are all related to an alternative product which they don't yet offer! Make it very hard to decipher the documents and looks a bit amateurish (even to a beginner like me).
     
  14. Habakkuk

    Habakkuk

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    That's what I thought too. Confusing, but I didn't want to admit that. The prominent tables displaying the fees for other products in particular are odd. A comparison would be better, SelfWealth on the left, others on the right.

    I had an on-line chat a week ago and asked about day-trading before reading any of the terms and conditions. The guy said yes, that's quite ok, you don't need to keep a portfolio. If I had read those t&c before, I would have assumed it was purely for investors and trading was a no-no.

    Anyway, it's an interesting product. There should be more of them.
     
  15. wfdTamar

    wfdTamar

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    I asked about the other products mentioned in the charts and in the PDS. They said they're for products they don't even offer (yet) they only put that in there in case they wanted to offer them in the future! Gawd, well have a seperate PDS then!

    Apart from all that confusion - yes $9.50 per trade is an amazingly low price and given that they've been going for 4-5 years I can't understand why it hasn't taken off. Anyway I'm going to try it and see if it's worthwhile.
     
  16. wfdTamar

    wfdTamar

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    Ok, here's a report on SefWealth. Woo hoo, this is saving me heaps on brokers fees. Been a tad sick since I joined them, but started trading in March. 14 trades - fees just $133 vs. something like $12-13,000 on ETrade! Just in 8-9 days! Because the fees are so low it only takes a tiny rise in stock price to make a profit. It's a rare day (well, none yet) that doesn't have price fluctuation enough to make a nice return.

    Because SelfWealths data and charts are fairly weak, I have my ETrade account open in another browser tab and watch the data in that mostly, then pop to the SelfWealth tab when I want to make a trade.
     
  17. tech/a

    tech/a No Ordinary Duck

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    IB $6 a trade
    Free charts 1min to Monthly.
    Every market you can think of
    Great phone app.
     
  18. Habakkuk

    Habakkuk

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    Do you know whether the money from a 'sell' is immediately available for another 'buy'? SelfWealth is mainly catering for investors, judging by their features (Investor Insights, social investment network of like-minded ...). Could you make multiple trades on the same day with the same money?
    Looking at your numbers, you're probably day-trading the banks.
     
  19. barney

    barney

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    14 trades would normally have cost you $12-13000:eek: ..... That would equate to between $500,000-$1,000,000 of stock being traded ..... per trade! ....... That would put you in Guru status around here:cool: