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Roy Jones vs. Danny Green

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Wysiwyg

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. Or is just that Pacquiao is in the unbeatable class?
Realistically no one is unbeatable so I checked his record and from 55 fights he has won 50, lost 3 and drawn 2. Not bad hey. He goes bananas in the toe to toe as the Morales & Marquez contests showed.
 
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Realistically no one is unbeatable so I checked his record and from 55 fights he has won 50, lost 3 and drawn 2. Not bad hey. He goes bananas in the toe to toe as the Morales & Marquez contests showed.

Though Pac lost those fights a long long time ago. He has come a long way, even just since his first fight with Marquez. He has added a lot of lateral movement, and a lot of new punches to his arsenal. All he used to o was throw the jab and straight left and that was it, literally.

But I believe 2 of those losses he was actually stopped by a body punch....

Is Mayweather unbeatable though.........? Don't think anyone is, but so far, so good.
 
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The Pacman's hand speed has improved considerably over the years.

It would be a great fight - the only reason why I'd lean towards Pac in a Mayweather showdown is psychological [it is slight] - Floyd is under pressure to keep his unbeaten record.
That and the fact that Pac is having one hell of a run atm

btw MRC, not to derail the thread, but thought i'd mention the volley that sank the Madristas :D
 
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OK all you died in the wool boxing fans - if you're like me you will have watched all the greats on YouTube.

Who would you rate as the greatest fighter of all time?

And who would you name in the top 20?

All time greatest....Roy Jones and Ray Leonard share the honour in my view. Definitely not Sugar Ray Robinson, who is often touted as the best ever. I've seen replays of quite a few of his fights and great fighter though he was, I don't think he was in the same league as Jones or Leonard.

My top 20, not in any particular order...

Jack Dempsey....The Manassa Mauler looked like a crude slugger when he won the heavyweight title by destroying Jess Willard. But Dempsey was also a superb boxer, and due to his bobbing, weaving style, was very difficult to hit with a clean shot.
Dempsey always said that his greatest victory was when he won on points over 15 rounds against the man who was considered to be one of the best tactical boxers ever. I don't recall his name.
At 6 foot 1 and just 13.5 stone, Dempsey would have been a cruiserweight today.

Mike Tyson....Tyson said he based his style on the great Dempsey. What a fight it would be if both could be returned to their prime and put in the ring together. Both used their bobbing, weaving styles to get in close and unload their power punches. My money would be on Dempsey, due to his better chin and superior boxing skills.

Ray Leonard...His performance in winning the Olympic gold medal was a superb display of tactical boxing, and that was while he was still an amateur, years before he reached his prime. I don't think there's been a better fighter than Leonard.

Ray Mosley....Pound for pound the greatest in the world in his prime. Still fighting at the top level today despite being many years past his best.

Arturo Gatti....Many incredible performances in the Featherweight and Junior Welterweight divisions, including many that were voted 'fight of the year'.

Manny Pacquaio....Indescribable, will go down in history as one of the best ever, perhaps even the best.

Roy Jones...Incredible - nothing more needs to be said.

Oscar De La Hoya....One of the best ever without question.....six time world champion. Superb boxing skills and a big puncher. Was rated the best pound for pound fighter in the world in his prime.

Kostya Tszu...ruled the Junior Welterweight division for 10 years, huge puncher but also a superb boxer when the occasion demanded. Was world amateur champ before turning pro. Was rated best pound for pound in his prime.

Alexis Arguello...One of the finest boxers I've ever seen. Tall skinny bloke, with huge punching power that seemed at odds with his streaky build.
He was well past his prime when he stepped up a division to take on Aaron Pryor. He outboxed Pryor initially and hit him with many clean punches that would have knocked out most men, but Pryor had one of the best chins of any fighter ever. Finally Pryor's non stop pressure caught up with Arguello and wore him down, and he lost inside the distance.

Roberto Duran....World champ at 20, virtually unbeatable at his right weight. Forget his later disastrous fights when he was old and fighting a couple of divisions above his true weight. He was 50 when he finally retired from boxing.

Carlos Monzon....The world middleweight champ from Argentina was a classic boxer, considered by many as the best ever middleweight. One of the few boxers to retire undefeated. Rocky Marciano was another. Monzon had the sense to refuse all challenges to step up a weight division and have a crack at world light heavyweight champ Bob Foster.

Mohammed Ali....Considered my many as the best of all the heavyweights - although I personally disagree.

Marvin Hagler...The great Hagler was middleweight champion of the world for seven years in the 1980's. A superb boxer with huge punching power, as Tommy Hearns found out the hard way.

Evander Holyfield...Right up there with the best heavyweights ever. In his fights in the Olympic games leading up to the final, he was ridiculously superior to all his opponents. He would have been a certain gold medal winner if he hadn't been disqualified.

Julio Cesar Chavez...The Mexican legend had more than 80 pro fights and won most of them. When he was well past his prime he took on Kostya Tszu, but lost inside the distance.

Salvadore Sanchez....The great Mexican may have gone down in history as the greatest fighter ever if he hadn't been tragically killed in an accident when he was in his prime at the age of 23.
He was a very busy fighter, winning the WBC World Featherweight title in early 1980 and successfully defending his title nine times in the next 17 months.
Prior to becoming champion, he'd won 34 of 35 pro fights in the previous five years.

Bob Foster...Generally regarded as the greatest light heavyweight of them all. He ruled the light heavyweight division in the late sixties and early seventies, but bit off more than he could chew on most of the occasions when he made a foray into the heavyweight ranks. Two of his most notable losses were KO's at the hands of Mohammed Ali and Joe Frazier.

Joe Louis....The legendary Brown Bomber is considered by many as the greatest ever heavyweight.

Pernell Whittaker...Lightweight legend Whittaker was a world champion in four divisions during the 1980's, and in his prime was judged the best pound for pound fighter in the world.

One other fighter deserves special mention.....
Teofilo Stevenson...The legendary Stevenson may well have become the greatest heavyweight in history if he'd pursued a pro career. Future world heavyweight champion John Tate was just one top contender who was annihilated by Stevenson on his way to winning a gold medal in the heavyweight division at three successive Olympic Games in the 1970's.
He was offered big money to defect from Cuba to the USA to fight in the professional ranks, but showed no interest in doing so. Professional boxing wasn't allowed in Cuba. The debate will rage forever about how he would have gone against Ali.
 
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Bunyip, I think you mean Shane Mosley, as opposed to Ray Mosley. And Arturo Gatti is one of my favourite fighters of all-time, but there is no way in the world he is a top 20 fighter of all-time. Not even in the top 100. Everytime he stepped up against a great, he got absolutely smoked.

Well I have a large boxing archive of films ordered from all over the world, so I think I can comment.

The unquestionable #1 fighter of all-time is Sugar Ray Robinson. There is absolutely NO footage of him in his prime unfortunately. But the likes of the hall of fame fighters he fought and beat are unheard of, LaMotta, Turpin, Basillio, Fulmer, Armstrong, Gavilan, Zivic, Olson, the list goes on and on.

As for the rest, I cannot put an exact list together, because it's just so hard to judge different eras, divisions etc, but I will put 20 together in no particular order, all below Ray Robinson whose career was not paralelled by anyone before or after him.

Ray Robinson.
Roberto Duran.
Ray Leonard.
Roy Jones.
Floyd Mayweather.
Manny Pacquiao.
Muhammed Ali.
Carlos Monzon.
Marvin Hagler.
Benny Leonard.
Willy Pep.
Sandy Saddler.
Salvador Sanchez.
Eider Jofre.
Oscar De La Hoya.
Joe Louis.
Harry Greb.
Henry Armstrong.
Ezzard Charles.
Joe Gans.
 
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Bunyip, I think you mean Shane Mosley, as opposed to Ray Mosley.

I did indeed mean Shane Mosley.
I probably should have included Floyd Mayweather jnr. in the top 20, but he's a fighter whose career I haven't followed much for some reason, nor have I seen many replays of his fights.
How do you think he'll go against Pac, if they meet? He has a size advantage for a start.
There are just so many others who are right up there with the best of the best, but not quite top 20 material.

Have a look at Sakio Bika vs Jaydon Codrington on YouTube.....it was 'fight of the year' about 12 or 18 months ago. Not the best stoush I've seen but pretty damn good all the same.
 
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How do you think he'll go against Pac, if they meet?

Have a look at Sakio Bika vs Jaydon Codrington on YouTube.....it was 'fight of the year' about 12 or 18 months ago. Not the best stoush I've seen but pretty damn good all the same.

Unsure on Mayweather V Pac, will be very close, but like I said on the previous page, I would have to favour Mayweather simply because Pac struggled so much with a great counter-puncher like Marquez and Mayweather is the absolute best in the business at this, maybe who ever lived. Pac on the other hand, is like a fast version of Aaron Pryor, who throws unorthadox punches from strange angles, the type that can tag Mayweather (as witnessed by DeMarcus Corley in his fight with Mayweather).

I've seen that Bika fight, was a great scrap indeed!

Good to see another boxing fan around the boards! :)
 

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Kung Fu Kid
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...Good to see another boxing fan around the boards! :)

Me third:)!....'tho I definitely don't have the depth of knowledge you guys have (I was but a wee lad when 'Iron' Mike introduced me to my love of the Sweet Science) but thank heavens for Youtube and other video sites! I've been gradually adding to that library.

RE: Mayweather v Pacquiao:
You said it yourself, MRC. When Pacman first started, he relied on that straight left as his primary weapon but he's added a WHOLE arsenal of firepower (Right Hook, MUCH improved defense, Ring Generalship) since then. IMHO, even if he dropped back down to 135lb, Marquez would no longer have his measure. The Manny that got caught by JMM's counter-punches is not the same Manny we are witnessing today. And the scary thing is, he still doesn't seem to have stopped improving (Freddie Roach says Manny's still soaking up tactics and techniques).

I held off for a long time - even after the devastation he wrought on Hatton - but after Cotto's monumental beatdown, I am now an unabashed Pacquaio nuthugger:p:. I think Larry Merchant said it best, Cotto was facing loaded gloves again but this time, they were naturally loaded.

Having said that, sadly, I'm leaning (55%:45%) towards PBF taking this fight, albeit by STINKING UP the whole arena with his Mayrunner routine. Sigh, but that's his job, isn't it? To hit and not be hit...But if anyone has the tools to get him, it'll be Manny - those giant calves will move deftly to sidestep and cut the distance and put his Gatling guns to work. PBF won't have it easy by just doing his usual one-punch pot shotting. Not when he'll be faced with a barrage of punches coming in from all angles. Even if he doesn't prevail, Manny's legacy will outshine PBF's (one took on Hall of Famers, the other 'retired' rather than face prime contenders in Cotto, Mosley, (the then untarnished) Margarito). Plus, I'm hoping he busts up that much bally-hooed shoulder roll.

I'm in two minds about this fight. As a purist, this IS ABSOLUTELY the fight of the year to seal either man's Legacy but as a fight fan, I wanted Mosley v Pacquaio - two warriors who won't take a backward step, who fire back with venom when hurt. They both have superior boxing skills but simmering underneath are junkyard dogs:D.

LOL, still, I'm making this glass half-full: I'm making this one of my prime motivations to get my backside in gear and repair GFC damage. Not much chance of doing it in 4 months but will try to fund a trip to the big fight if I do go above and beyond big profits.

Asides: Methinks RJJ SHOULD absolutely retire if he doesn't have the smarts to change his style...that left hand hanging so low...it's sad, he no longer has the reflexes to carry that off.

Congrats to Danny Green but could do without the media hyperbole ("WHEN YOU BEAT A LEGEND, YOU BECOME A LEGEND!"). And reports that he might take on Holyfield or <shudder> Tyson don't augur well.

Cotto SHOULD absolutely NOT retire. IMHO, he could still fold over most of the guys in the welterweight division...it's just that Manny's a phenomenon (however flawed he is*).

By the by, been watching bits of Orlando Canizales, a joy to behold. Just the bobbing and weaving and those parries. Would even say Pacman's a bit like him, but less fundamentally sound.

*Those lunging punches! Which thankfully, he kept to a minimum in the last fight.
 

Wysiwyg

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The Roy Jones knockdown would be an inspiration to two fighters coming up soon. One will be PBF and the other Mundine.

Medley - Mundine early in the new year on Jan. 11. Seen Rob Medley boxing a few times on pay t.v. and to my untrained eye, he is well skilled and will go all night if they let him.

Any views on Rob Medley?
 

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Kung Fu Kid
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Who cares about Mundine? Always cherry-picking tomato cans....

Only (half) kidding:p: Seriously tho', why pay attention to a trinket 'champion' when we have real fighters like Darchinyan? (fighting this Sunday)


And....at this point, I apologise...for my negative tone. Dunno about Medley, from what you've seen on Pay TV, what's his style like, Wysyg? Could be interesting if he's not just one of the slow sluggers they usually put in front of Choc for him to pick apart.

Ack, this thread has seriously derailed and I'm playing my part. Til' next time, Steve Rogers:)!
 
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I wanted Mosley v Pacquaio - two warriors who won't take a backward step, who fire back with venom when hurt. They both have superior boxing skills but simmering underneath are junkyard dogs:D.

Pacquaio vs Mosley would a great stoush if both were in their prime. But I wouldn't like to see Mosley step in against Pac now that Mosley is well past his best, even though he's still pretty damn good.
He was narrowly beaten on points by Cotto, whereas Pac cleaned up Cotto in no uncertain manner. Pac is just getting better with every fight, but Mosley is slowly but surely losing his skills as his reactions slow down.
I'd like to see him retire now, even though he's still a very entertaining fighter. He's got nothing more to prove - but not many of them know when to quit.
I think Cotto should retire too. He copped a hammering in the Pac fight and I suspect he'll go rapidly downhill from here on if he continues, like Hatton did after Mayweather rolled him.
Hatton apparently has had the sense to give the game away......for how long remains to be seen.
 
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What do you fellers think of newly crowned WBA Heavyweight champ David Haye?
I like what I see, particularly his athleticism.
In recent years there have been so many huge, cumbersome blokes in the heavyweight division, slow and not at all athletic.
Haye is a different kettle of fish altogether, lean, fast, athletic, and a massive puncher. I reckon he's just what the division has been lacking.
Some commentators are saying he's too small. I disagree. He's 6 foot 3, the same height as Ali. Ali weighed 210 pounds when he took the title from Liston, Haye weighs 217.5 - quite a bit bigger than Ali. And quite a bit bigger than some of the other heavyweight greats throughout history....Louis, Dempsey, Marciano to name just a few.

Haye is in fact a similar weight to Tyson in his prime....Tyson 99 - 100 kg, Haye 98.9 kg.

I reckon he'll be a real handful for either of the Klitschko's or anyone else in the heavyweight ranks. I'm hoping for big things from Haye over the next few years.
 

Wysiwyg

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What do you fellers think of newly crowned WBA
I started a thread pertinent to boxing called ummmm Boxing, so we don't have multiple threads about boxing opening up also the jones - green fight is over now.
 
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I actually had Mosley beating Cotto in their fight by 2 rounds as did another close friend of mine who is a complete boxing historian. It was close, but I think Mosley did enough.

You also can't say, that because Pac beat Cotto easier, he would beat Mosley. Look at what Margarito did to Cotto, and now look at Mosley did to Margarito.

Styles make fights, this is the beauty of boxing.

Haye is good, but I think the Klits are on a different level at the moment. I personally don't think Haye has what it takes. Though the heavyweight division does need some athleticism, agree there, it's as boring as hell, to the point don't even watch it much at all anymore, sadly.

Hopefully a mod can move this thread into the boxing one Wy.
 
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