Prop trading graduate programs?

[Yanoshi51]

Hello! Basically I'm a 19 year old who is majoring in Finance (graduating at end of 2017). I have been learning about trading since I was 16, and started swing trading with real money at age 18. I started Day trading 6 months ago and have stuck to that as it is more consistent and profitable than what I was doing before. I am purely a a technical swing trader and use a systematic strategy for day trading. Because I have Uni in the day time, I trade US markets at night.

I want to know what options are there for me to work as a prop trader? I don't know where to start. Could someone help me with this? What are the prop trading firms in Australia that I can apply to? citibank, Ubs, goldman sachs??..
Also feel free to ask me questions about my trading!

Thanks!

 

[kid hustlr]

Google:

Propex
Aliom

THe firms you listed are investment banks, they may have a prop desk but don't really take prop traders studying at uni.

 

[CanOz]

Google:

Propex
Aliom

THe firms you listed are investment banks, they may have a prop desk but don't really take prop traders studying at uni.

Also Genesis, Star Beta and Phoenix....aliom and epoch merged to create Genesis

 

[Wysiwyg]

I find it interesting how they want to hire traders. To me this means there is no tradeable auto or manual system. Like discretionary is the way to go.

 

[CanOz]

I find it interesting how they want to hire traders. To me this means there is no tradeable auto or manual system. Like discretionary is the way to go.

Allot of the spreaders are automating now, not just the legging in, but the actual term structure plays.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I find it interesting how they want to hire traders. To me this means there is no tradeable auto or manual system. Like discretionary is the way to go.

I think about it this way - you have 1000's apply, and your filter is to pick those who perform. Discretionary winning/losing seems to be a fairly stable trait over a longer time frame. It's definitely changeable, but stable. It's a trait with inertia.

So it's sort of mechanical in a way.

 

[CanOz]

I think about it this way - you have 1000's apply, and your filter is to pick those who perform. Discretionary winning/losing seems to be a fairly stable trait over a longer time frame. It's definitely changeable, but stable. It's a trait with inertia.

So it's sort of mechanical in a way.

But keep in mind that there are very few outright directional traders, maybe 1% from what I've learned from the various shops.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

But keep in mind that there are very few outright directional traders, maybe 1% from what I've learned from the various shops.

How do they trade?

 

[skc]

Hello! Basically I'm a 19 year old who is majoring in Finance (graduating at end of 2017). I have been learning about trading since I was 16, and started swing trading with real money at age 18. I started Day trading 6 months ago and have stuck to that as it is more consistent and profitable than what I was doing before. I am purely a a technical swing trader and use a systematic strategy for day trading. Because I have Uni in the day time, I trade US markets at night.

I want to know what options are there for me to work as a prop trader? I don't know where to start. Could someone help me with this? What are the prop trading firms in Australia that I can apply to? citibank, Ubs, goldman sachs??..
Also feel free to ask me questions about my trading!

Thanks!

There's nothing wrong with applying to the investment banks, especially if you have the grades and the desire to work 100 hours a week. They often have graduate programs with rotations across different divisions. Trading would be one of them. You may not be doing proprietary trading straight off the bat, but you'd learn a great deal about markets whilst being paid.... as opposed to being a newbie prop shop trader who takes 1-2 years to become consistently profitable.

 

[CanOz]

How do they trade?

They spread, mostly short term interest rate futures....but also energy or indices. Some shops just want 'bums on seats' clicking away to get the rebates.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

They spread, mostly short term interest rate futures....but also energy or indices. Some shops just want 'bums on seats' clicking away to get the rebates.

Why the preference for spreads? nvm... Google.

 

[CanOz]

Why the preference for spreads? nvm... Google.

You might not find an answer in Google so I'll try....I reckon they trade spreads because they have an almost riskless edge there. There are so many synthetic instruments that there are almost guaranteed gains available. Legging risk is now being overcome by algoes, so they do still have some event risk, but basically it's statistical arbitrage strategies that are making the big bucks. Many people don't know this, but one of the world's largest bond traders is an Aussie, based in Singapore virtually owning the 2 and 10 year Aussie bonds.

 

[kid hustlr]

You might not find an answer in Google so I'll try....I reckon they trade spreads because they have an almost riskless edge there. There are so many synthetic instruments that there are almost guaranteed gains available. Legging risk is now being overcome by algoes, so they do still have some event risk, but basically it's statistical arbitrage strategies that are making the big bucks. Many people don't know this, but one of the world's largest bond traders is an Aussie, based in Singapore virtually owning the 3 and 10 year Aussie bonds.

^^^

 

[Gringotts Bank]

You might not find an answer in Google so I'll try....I reckon they trade spreads because they have an almost riskless edge there. There are so many synthetic instruments that there are almost guaranteed gains available. Legging risk is now being overcome by algoes, so they do still have some event risk, but basically it's statistical arbitrage strategies that are making the big bucks. Many people don't know this, but one of the world's largest bond traders is an Aussie, based in Singapore virtually owning the 2 and 10 year Aussie bonds.

'Almost guaranteed gains'... What would stop me joining a prop firm and getting some of that action? Is there a skill element?

 

[CanOz]

^^^

Thanks...

So the 3's are the 'bills'?

2's are the notes?

 

[CanOz]

'Almost guaranteed gains'... What would stop me joining a prop firm and getting some of that action? Is there a skill element?

I think the biggest hurdle for entry is that 'contestants' or trainees need the financial ability to go without income for 12 months. Genesis will train you online for a few months then take you in at Sydney if you pass the first test. Then they'll make a few cuts again. Its much the same process that Darkhorse went through although i have heard better things about the Genesis training.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I think the biggest hurdle for entry is that 'contestants' or trainees need the financial ability to go without income for 12 months. Genesis will train you online for a few months then take you in at Sydney if you pass the first test. Then they'll make a few cuts again. Its much the same process that Darkhorse went through although i have heard better things about the Genesis training.

Ok thanks. Has to be full time then.

Now I'm wondering why such a simple method (seems simple) wouldn't be completely run by an algo.

 

[CanOz]

Ok thanks. Has to be full time then.

Now I'm wondering why such a simple method (seems simple) wouldn't be completely run by an algo.

Well that's the thing, there are some shops that are almost completely algo now. If you're think high frequency then no because they just don't have the liquidity in some contracts to support the kind of stuff that HFT typically does in equities. Also, some of the term structures they use, think more complex than a butterfly, are off the radar for big algo firms. Peraps if you do some research you might be able to answer some of your questions more effectively than i can, like a Google for STIR futures trading, even YT.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Well that's the thing, there are some shops that are almost completely algo now. If you're think high frequency then no because they just don't have the liquidity in some contracts to support the kind of stuff that HFT typically does in equities. Also, some of the term structures they use, think more complex than a butterfly, are off the radar for big algo firms. Peraps if you do some research you might be able to answer some of your questions more effectively than i can, like a Google for STIR futures trading, even YT.

Quicker to ask you.

 

[OmegaTrader]

They spread, mostly short term interest rate futures....but also energy or indices. Some shops just want 'bums on seats' clicking away to get the rebates.

Hi


I was reading someones prop experiences in the UK

link: http://backtestwizard.com/you-dont-really-want-to-work-at-a-prop-trading-firm/

Effectively he states that some props just want a rebate and so make their traders go into really low volatile spreads.

The traders make bugger all because their is minimal movement and spends all day watching the spread.

Is this what happens in some of the aussie props? Propex ? genesis ?

I could understand it the incentives behind this.

Do aussie props get rebates from exchanges directly or indirectly through brokers??