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Married Sunday, Fired Monday... really?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by basilio, Aug 20, 2017.

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  1. basilio

    basilio

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    Interesting new development in the same sex marriage debate.
    Archbishop Denis Hart of the Holy Roman Catholic Church has delivered a statement on same sex marriage and how it may affect employees of the Catholic Church.

    Married Sunday, fired Monday: Churches threaten to dismiss staff who wed same-sex partners
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    1,532 reading now

    Australia's Catholic church is threatening to fire teachers, nurses and other employees who marry their same-sex partner if gay marriage is legalised, in a dramatic move led by the country's most senior Catholic.

    Archbishop of Melbourne Denis Hart, speaking exclusively to Fairfax Media, pointedly warned the church's 180,000 employees they were expected to uphold its teachings "totally", and defiance would be treated "very seriously".

    "I would be very emphatic that our schools, our parishes exist to teach a Catholic view of marriage," he said. "Any words or actions which work contrary to that would be viewed very seriously.

    "Our teachers, our parish employees are expected totally to uphold the Catholic faith and what we believe about marriage. People have to see in words and in example that our teaching of marriage is underlined.

    "We shouldn't be slipping on that," said Archbishop Hart, who also chairs the powerful Australian Catholic Bishops Conference. He said individual hiring and firing decisions "are best dealt with on the local scene".

    Archbishop Hart was backed up by Archbishop Timothy Costelloe, chair of the Bishops Commission for Catholic Education, who cautioned teachers against "undermining" their schools' values if same-sex marriage became law.

    Archbishop Costelloe said parents who sent their children to a Catholic school wanted them educated within a Catholic framework, of which marriage was a vital part.

    "In accepting a role in a Catholic school, staff will recognise their responsibility to conduct themselves in such a way as not to undermine the fundamental ethos of the school," he told Fairfax Media.


    Does raise a few questions in my mind. Just at random.
    - What about gay employees who simply live together. Should they be allowed to stay employed?
    - What happens if you are invited to a gay wedding ? A friend, a family member, perhaps a celebrity ? Are you allowed to go ? What would happen if you had a picture of the happy event at your workplace ? What would happen if you celebrated/noted it on facebook or in the staff room or classroom?
    - What other moral issues could endanger a persons emplyment if they were against theclear views of your nominal employer the Catholic Church? Being divorced? Seeing/living with a divorced person ? Remarrying as a divorcee ?
    -( As for the consequences of religious staff who break their vows of celibacy or worse abuse children or even more disgraceful are protected by their superiors.. Hmm)

    Thoughts ??

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/fed...who-wed-samesex-partners-20170817-gxy4ds.html
     

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  2. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    It will be interesting to see if such cases end up in Court for unfair dismissal.
     
  3. dutchie

    dutchie

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    Religious b*llsh*t and total hypocrisy.

    The Catholic church should have instantly dismissed anyone found guilty of pedophilia, which you would think would be against church "teachings", instead they just moved them on to the next parish.

    HYPOCRITES (like all religions)
     
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  4. tech/a

    tech/a No Ordinary Duck

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    No time for religion.
    Self serving
    Delusional
    Fear mongering
    Controlling
    Hypocrites
     
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  5. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    Wouldn't most religion agree with the Catholic Church.
    Why would anyone be surprised by this? They can run the religion to the book if thats what they want to do. They don't have to bow to social pressure.
     
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  6. CanOz

    CanOz Home runs feel good, but base hits pay bills!

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    Not surprising really, is it? People wouldn't be surprised if the leader of another faith, Islam for example, said something.
     
  7. lindsayf

    lindsayf

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    Yes they are credentialled to discriminate and delude. It is what they do best. Not long out of the trees are we, really.
     
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  8. pixel

    pixel DIY Trader

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    Anyone that abides by Secular Laws that we don't like, will be sacked.
    Doesn't that smack of "We are above the Laws of Australia"?
    Just wait till the Bikie Gangs discover that ruse :p New "Cult of God's Garbage" anyone?

    If Cathoholics want to build a wall around their Club by segregating State and Church, let them go ahead. Treat them like any other club that maintains special rules, e.g. a Royal Yacht Club, or Royal Golf Club that make their own rules. ... and get taxed and treated like any other enterprise.
    Any idea what an Inner City commercial block brings in on Land Tax alone?
     
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  9. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    Yes, they are probably the biggest un taxed business in the country. Why should we finance their schools as well and those goes for the Islams equally.
     
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  10. Tisme

    Tisme Apathetic at Best

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    Non Catholics are already employed in vast numbers in the Catholic businesses. But I can understand that a core discipline be kept sacrosanct .... it's not like they are being hypocritical coz in all those centuries of priestly buggery none of them demanded to be married to their boys AFAIK.
     
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  11. basilio

    basilio

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    These statements/expectations are dynamite. They underline the concerns I raised earlier and the potential consequences for staff, parents, students and their friends and family. Specifically consider the following scenarios
    1) How will the church respond to employees who are in defacto relationships ?
    2) How will the church respond to divorced employees who then enter other relationships?
    3) In the above circumstances how will schools/institutions respond if these relationships are highlighted through invitations, parties, bringing partners to school functions, talking about these relationships to students and other parents ?
    4) How will the church view the discussion of these relationships on facebook or other social media? Is it now axiomatic that an employee of the Catholic Church needs to follow the strictures of the faith in word , deed and public persona ?

    With regard to any gay relationships or gay marriages in the social circles of Catholic employees:

    1) Will employees have to remain totally silent about any such relationships and in particular not allude to them in any way that could be interpreted as betraying the the Catholic beliefs on marriage ?

    2) Will any discussion about gay relationships in schools or institutions be circumscribed by the expectation that the Catholic view of marriage is upheld in word and example ? In that context how will teachers respond to students who have gay parents or gay friends ?

    3) Will any gay person currently employed in a Catholic institution be expected to remain totally private about their situation and in particular publicly uphold the Catholic position on marriage? In that context for example would they be forbidden to attend any gay marriages, comment on them on public forums, discuss them with any student or other staff members or in any other way give credence to these relationships?

    Any bush lawyers on ASF ? I think this resembles a circular firing squad for the Catholic Church.
     
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  12. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    I think a "don't ask, don't tell" policy would be the best for all.
     
  13. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    Whats your point to all this bas?

    They are a religious group. Pretty sure their stance is the same as it always has. It's not exactly a democracy. Are you saying we should force them to do what lefties want?
    Because that will end very badly.
     
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  14. basilio

    basilio

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    I opened the thread to report and discuss what Archbishop Hart has stated as the position of the Church on marriage. My take is that his stated expectation of employees in Catholic schools goes way, way beyond a respectful statement of the Catholic Churchs view on marriage. In fact it demands the acceptance in public and private of the total view of the Catholic Church position on marriage as an ongoing condition of employment. I suspect if this is taken to an secular court it wouldn't be considered acceptable in our pluralistic society.

    I also think if the scenarios I outlined reflect Archbishops Harts intentions there will be incredible disquiet amongst staff, students and parents. Essentially "who the hell are you to tell us what to think and who our friends can be?"

    Just not particularly Christian IMO.
     
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  15. Tisme

    Tisme Apathetic at Best

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    The Catholic Church must maintain the rules of the Bible, otherwise it ceases to be true to the instructions and lessons of the various contributors.

    e.g.

    1) unmarried people should refrain from sex: Hebrews 13.4
    2) resisting sexual temptation: Matthew 5:27, 5:28, 5:29, 5:30
    3) obedience to God (the Bible) : Corinthians 2:9
    4) no homosexual sex: Romans 1:26, 1:27, 1:28

    basically if you break the rules, God knows, if you think you are tricking God He knows, if you won't control your actions God knows, if you assist or coerce people into breaking the rules God knows and God admits he is a vengeful God.

    So how could you blame the Church making sure God's word is followed.
     
  16. pixel

    pixel DIY Trader

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    Simple: Make sure that they follow Australian Law, especially as it applies to non-discrimination, false advertising, hiding crimes, being accessories after the fact, ...
    Just check threads on this Forum where the topic is Islam, Sharia Law, four wives, etc. Look at the outcry of indignation "How dare THEY to tell us Australians ..." How come it's suddenly okay when the shoe is on the other foot? :( :mad:
     
  17. Tisme

    Tisme Apathetic at Best

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    I'm guessing they were rhetorical questions?

    The question that has to be asked is whether the Catholic businesses acted within the law, before the law altered to pander to the homosexual community and whether that is a just change, that would otherwise be discriminatory to Catholics.
     
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  18. Tink

    Tink

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  19. grah33

    grah33

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    it's because of their values/beliefs that religious institutions also offer a large number of free charity services like feeding starving /sick people etc. take away their freedom to practice their morals and u lose all that as well. it's already happening in the US (christian orphanages /marriage counseling services have shut down).
     
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